1981-04-18 Not a Dream w/ DT & Sam Lister

Re: 1981-04-18 Not a Dream w/ DT & Sam Lister
Post by Snoho17 » Thu Apr 28, 2022 3:12 am

Where's attachment 7?

Re: 1981-04-18 Not a Dream w/ DT & Sam Lister
Post by Hope » Thu Apr 28, 2022 4:22 am

Wish I knew, I'd sure like to see it!

Re: 1981-04-18 Not a Dream w/ DT & Sam Lister
Post by Alonso Quijano » Thu Apr 28, 2022 6:34 pm

Isn't the most logical next thing to say is, "Justin, if you recognized the men who did this when we WILL protect you from them". I thought he was initially whisked off to a sort of protective custody anyhow? And he had no reason to mistrust or disbelieve cops.

Is there a scrap of paper where the cops ever said this to him? If so then what did he say back?

This is just weird to me. Justin was troubled but he was not "on the spectrum" as they say. He was 12 not 8 and he was lucid in the immediate aftermath. If he witnessed this thing then he either knew the perps or he didn't.

All those interviews, some of which i am sure were not gentle, he didn't slip up and say "Marty" or "my stepdad". And there's no unknown female in any account.

Re: 1981-04-18 Not a Dream w/ DT & Sam Lister
Post by CAMFaults » Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:34 pm

Why wasn't a parent or a social worker present when Sheriff Thomas picked up Justin, took him to lunch, and then escorted him to the polygraph? The boy was a minor, 12 years old, and never should have been without a legal guardian or representative he felt comfortable with, and to make sure he wasn't intimidated or scared by law enforcement officials. I am concerned about what Sheriff Thomas and Justin discussed during the time between leaving Quincy Elementary and arriving for the polygraph. Lunch alone could have endeared the sheriff to Justin and made the boy want to please him by stating certain information as fact.

Re: 1981-04-18 Not a Dream w/ DT & Sam Lister
Post by kmik » Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:44 am

We don't know that DT didn't get parental consent before questioning Justin. I don't think DT had to have anyone's consent to question Justin (regardless of his age) plus he was questioning him as a witness not a suspect.

I don't know Justin past reading these reports but I don't have him pictured as being a whimpy kid wanting to please anyone. I think Justin told LE on Sunday that he slept through the murders, then went home and talked about things to his family and Marilyn told DT the next day that she thought Justin saw something so he had her bring him in.

DT didn't single Justin out for no reason - he was the only one claiming to have knowledge of anything.

Re: 1981-04-18 Not a Dream w/ DT & Sam Lister
Post by Hope » Sat Apr 30, 2022 8:56 pm



I've never seen a report where this was specifically said and I've never seen a report where Justin said he recognized the men he claimed to have seen in the cabin. He stated he did not recognize them. And he never stated or even hinted to LE that these men were Marty & Bo. I find it hard to believe if Justin knew it was M&B that he wouldn't have said so at some point. That's a lot of weight for a kid to carry and once Marty was out of his life he has no reason not to come clean. I also don't believe Marty was immediately banned from the Meeks & kept away from Marilyn & Justin. There is a 4/16/81 report which interviews Marilyn at the Meeks & Marty gives info at the same time. It appears Marty was still around as of 4/16. I'd like to know Justin's behavior while at the Meeks during that time and how he acted around Marty. There'd be obvious signs had Justin witnessed the actual murders and/or Marty was responsible.

I'd also like to know LE's opinion of his behavior in those initial days. I truly believe any of those kids would have shown signs had they witnessed something. What we need are the audio recordings of his interviews. I cannot envision a kid being cool, calm and collected, a kid that had just experienced everything that is claimed he did. But that's exactly how he appears in these written interviews, he doesn't appear traumatized or terrified. The audio recordings will help gauge whether he really knew something or was just saying things he felt LE wanted to hear. I don't envision Justin being a wimpy kid either but what he went through was a lot for anyone. I personally can see him trying to be helpful but it's possible he just wanted them to go away and leave him alone - if I just tell them something they want to hear, give them a description of some people then I'll be left alone. Teenagers and adults do the same thing during LE interviews which is why people confess to crimes they didn't commit, they just want it to stop in that moment. Audio Interviews would also show how much weight was being placed on Justin - if he was being told things like "you're the only one who can help us"


Regarding him being placed in protective custody, DT did the right thing. That was done immediately after Justin changed his story from it being a dream to actually witnessing the crime and seeing the perpetrators. DT was concerned the suspects had also seen Justin considering he admitted to see them well enough to give a description. It's been said "why wasn't the same done for the Sharp kids?" And there's probably two reasons for that - Rick & Greg didn't claim to see things like Justin did and shortly after the murders they left the area to live with their aunt.

We also need a more accurate timeline of events for Marty, Marilyn & Justin, statements which led to other statements, etc. I believe Marilyn told DT that Justin first admitted to going into the living room but later said he only saw into the living room through the open front door from the Seabolts fence. Which is the same thing Paula said. Considering his DNA was supposedly found on that piece of tape both the above are probably true. But that only means he was in the living room at some point, after the murders, not during them. Considering that DNA report has never been released, I don't believe anything in this case without seeing it with my own two eyes.

And after reading what was contained in that 1983 report by Bradley, I feel like we the public do not know the full story. Why did Sam Lister and others believe it's likely Justin didn't see anything at all? What did Lister "misrepresent" regarding what Justin was lying about? Ie what really happened? What was said in that interview? What made Justin change his story? What did his lie detector test show? Did Justin say *I think* that wasn't a dream, *I think* I really saw that? Is that what Lister was "misrepresenting"?? Did he believe Justin was "lying" about the dream or "lying" about witnessing things? He would have been able to read Justin's body language, etc.

Edit to add: reports regarding Justin are definitely missing and/or haven't been released. For example, his interview with Harlan Embrey when the composite sketches are made. There are two parts to that report but only the second part - the description of the second suspect - has been released. What did he say in part 1? Was there information in there describing how he supposedly saw these two men? Were questions asked that could be helpful to figuring this all out? I doubt it jumped straight into descriptions of the first man? Reading part 2 it sounds like he's not doing any describing. He's just saying "uh huh" every time he is asked something, as if he is just going along with it.