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Post by Hope on Oct 8, 2021 1:15:26 GMT
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Post by Hope on Jan 22, 2022 1:32:31 GMT
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Post by mew1987 on Jan 29, 2022 0:59:38 GMT
So both Sue and Dana had broken/fractured and loosened teeth Sue was hit with the Daisy 880 Powerline BB/pellet rifle most likely with her with her defen wounds this was an attempt to either knock her out or silence her before gagging her. Like I said Dana also had broken/fractured and loosened teeth and rectangular bruising on the left side of his head. This could mean two things 1. given the broken tape on Dana’s wrist in which it looks like put up a fight (yet no defence wounds) and broke free he may have been hit with the Daisy 880 Powerline BB/pellet rifle to knock him out 2. this could’ve been Dana had a seizure after being in a chokehold (it looks like he was hit three times) this may have been done to stop him from seizing While a Daisy 880 Powerline BB/pellet rifle doesn’t have a rectangular butt it could cause a rectangular injury
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Post by Hope on Jan 29, 2022 4:30:46 GMT
Yes, it appears the majority of Dana's blunt force trauma was caused by the butt of the air rifle. Johnny is the only victim with definitive hammer wounds. Sue also had a rectangular bruise on her thigh with oblique lines, consistent with the pattern on the rifle butt and also noted in the wounds to Dana's head. And as Snoho pointed out, the butt of the rifle most likely caused the severe lacerations behind Dana & Sue's ears. Each were dealt butt strikes that almost severed the ear completely.
Despite the claims of Dana's head injuries being inflicted postmortem as an act of staging, that cannot be true. Sadly, Dana was alive when he his head injuries occured. The ME notes hemorrhaging & abrasions of the wound edges + bruising to the skin and beneath the skin. These findings would not be present if he was already deceased. The tissue samples of his neck show deep tissue bruising as well meaning he was alive/his heart still pumping when he was strangled.
I also believe a similar scenario, like the one you mentioned, occurred. Dana's blunt force trauma occurred first, with the rifle. However, he was still alive and at some point broke his bindings. Whether because he regained consciousness or he was having a seizure as you mentioned. The killers then decided to strangle him to put an end to his movements. They were likely preoccupied and dealing with Sue at this point.
Several good posts have been made recently that deserve discussion and could tie everything together. Camfaults research into lividity and the timeline from when Dana was removed from 28 to when the autopsy was performed explains the posterior lividity situation. That was some great work! "Dana died first" has always been one of the "facts" of the case. And now that doesn't appear to be the case. Dana was not deceased on his back for several hours at 28 before being moved onto his stomach by the killers.
Snoho's post about the way the boys were tied/hobbled together makes a lot of sense as well. I believe Johnny died first. Everything we know about Johnny says he would have put up one hell of a fight had he watched Dana die. The boys were probably attacked simultaneously. Dana was badly injured and Johnny deceased. As snoho suggested, Johnny was rolled from his original position to where he was found and this matches the blood patterns. He was rolled to be closer to Dana so that the two could be tied together and the killers could be absolutely sure one of them wasn't going to come to and get away (& Dana did come to at some point based on the broken tape). At some point Sue came out into the living room, ran to Johnny stepping in blood. This is probably when they decided to tie the boys feet together since their attention had to turn to Sue.
Lots of great thoughts guys! Keep them up.
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Post by mew1987 on Jan 29, 2022 6:05:27 GMT
Thanks Hope like everyone else though Dana died first during a choke hold thanks for pointing out the ME’s notes
REGAINING CONSCIOUSNESS AFTER A CHOKE HOLD After release from the choke hold, the subject regains consciousness naturally (spontaneously) without difficulty in 10 to 20 seconds.
i think what your saying is a real possibility about him coming to but I always assumed he was dead when he suffered blunt force trauma.
What are your thoughts on Dana’s zipper?
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Post by snoho17 on Jan 29, 2022 6:41:02 GMT
I think him getting caught in the act of urination is a good hypothesis. There was also alot of discussion of his pants being pulled down looking for a wire, and dana possibly being a narc. From what we KNOW I feel like that's kind of a leap However it was pointed out that the M.E. looked for sticky residue on Dana's leg, which is where a wire would have been taped. Allegedly (I say, but with some certainty:) PCSO did use juvenile delinquent's as informants as part of their probation. Now if I were to speculate wildly (and I will:) if there were any type of departmental cover up, having an underaged informant murdered would be a HUGE black eye for the pcso. But his pants aren't pulled down as far as we know.
" He also wears blue corduroy type Levi jeans and the top button of the jeans is unbuttoned and the zipper is down approximately 2 inches"
Edit: also, who was discussed as having good relationships with C.I.'s? and who had a relationship teaching the boys Judo?
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Post by Hope on Jan 29, 2022 7:44:52 GMT
Oops, I must have misread your first post. Sorry about that. I understand now. And that's a possibility as well, one I hadn't really considered. I see what you are saying, it's possible he was initially choked out, came to and then was beaten. He did have those rectangular bruises across his buttock which I can see fitting in your scenerio. Well, either scenario I suppose. Lots to consider and it's very sad to think about.
It is most often said that Dana was strangled which was the cause of death and then the blunt force trauma occurred, after death. But if that was the case the ME wouldn't have noted hemorrhaging, abrasions, bruising, etc when describing his head wounds.
The zipper. Dana's zipper was down and Johnny's wallet was thrown behind the couch, there's that jacket on the floor plus school papers thrown about. And then, as we've talked about before, it does look as if a gym bag was dumped out (& as a side note, a gym/duffle bag would be the perfect way to remove that pellet rifle. And makes the Steven Howard story come to mind). I used to believe his zipper was down & Johnny's wallet tossed because someone was looking for something they believed Johnny and/or Dana had.
But now I'm not sure. The multiple, yet uncorroborated stories of Dana being "drunk" that night. Whether from alcohol or because he was having a medical crisis which made him appear drunk, did he leave his zipper down after using the bathroom? I can also see an unexpected attack from behind occurring while he was using the bathroom. Waiting for one of the boys to use the bathroom to attack while seperated. It does look as if the assault on Johnny started in the corner of the living room, did that happen while Dana was in the bathroom? Or did an argument occur which backed Johnny up into that corner? But then there is Justin's account cannot be trusted either. I do believe Justin must have heard things while in the bedroom - for example Johnny arguing with someone. In Justin's account Dana was hit on the back of the head when he tried to flee for the kitchen. He did have that wound to the back of his head. I just don't know.
What are your thoughts?
Do you guys remember, in one of Justin's statements he told LE which suspect killed each victim. I think he said one man killed Johnny & Sue and the other man killed Dana.
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Post by mew1987 on Jan 29, 2022 12:53:48 GMT
Oops, I must have misread your first post. Sorry about that. I understand now. And that's a possibility as well, one I hadn't really considered. I see what you are saying, it's possible he was initially choked out, came to and then was beaten. He did have those rectangular bruises across his buttock which I can see fitting in your scenerio. Well, either scenario I suppose. Lots to consider and it's very sad to think about. It is most often said that Dana was strangled which was the cause of death and then the blunt force trauma occurred, after death. But if that was the case the ME wouldn't have noted hemorrhaging, abrasions, bruising, etc when describing his head wounds. The zipper. Dana's zipper was down and Johnny's wallet was thrown behind the couch, there's that jacket on the floor plus school papers thrown about. And then, as we've talked about before, it does look as if a gym bag was dumped out (& as a side note, a gym/duffle bag would be the perfect way to remove that pellet rifle. And makes the Steven Howard story come to mind). I used to believe his zipper was down & Johnny's wallet tossed because someone was looking for something they believed Johnny and/or Dana had. But now I'm not sure. The multiple, yet uncorroborated stories of Dana being "drunk" that night. Whether from alcohol or because he was having a medical crisis which made him appear drunk, did he leave his zipper down after using the bathroom? I can also see an unexpected attack from behind occurring while he was using the bathroom. Waiting for one of the boys to use the bathroom to attack while seperated. It does look as if the assault on Johnny started in the corner of the living room, did that happen while Dana was in the bathroom? Or did an argument occur which backed Johnny up into that corner? But then there is Justin's account cannot be trusted either. I do believe Justin must have heard things while in the bedroom - for example Johnny arguing with someone. In Justin's account Dana was hit on the back of the head when he tried to flee for the kitchen. He did have that wound to the back of his head. I just don't know. What are your thoughts? Do you guys remember, in one of Justin's statements he told LE which suspect killed each victim. I think he said one man killed Johnny & Sue and the other man killed Dana. honestly I didn’t take Justin’s statements too seriously as there is a widespread belief that hypnosis produces accurate memories, researchers found that hypnosis does not work well as a memory-recovery method. In addition people who have been hypnotized tend to feel confident that their memories are accurate contributing to the persistence of false memories and given he said this all happened in a dream and Dana and Johnny were knocked overboard The Love Boat while yes there are some parts of the crime Justin did know and back up what he said but there are also holes in his story as Sue had Johnny’s blood on her feet squished up between her toes Justin would had to have walked over Johnny and Dana to get to Sue and somehow didn’t get blood on his feet at all or whatever he was wearing he also only tried to help Sue why not Johnny or Dana I find that very hard to understand why it’s not like the killers wouldn’t have made sure everyone was dead before they left and why just go back to bed and not attempt to get any help then there’s his story changing in the second session from two dark haired guy to one dark haired guy and one blonde guy after it was revealed Johnny had blonde hairs in his hand (which I still believe were his own) and also how Marty and Bo became suspects now if Justin heard this chances are he heard other things around the Keddie resort it was a big thing at the time and if my memory serves me correctly Shiela made a few phone calls to tell people about the murders before being interviewed by the police so the leads back to my original question what was word out of mouth and what was seen i find all that to be food for thought (maybe I’m the only one) answering your question about Dana’s zipper the most common reasons in a murder that a killer would loosen or remove their victims clothes SEXUAL ASSAULT ATTEMPTED SEXUAL ASSAULT CAUGHT IN A SEXUAL ACT ATTEMPT TO HUMILIATE THE VICTIM TO DRESS THE IN OTHER CLOTHES (example: dress a male in female clothing) CHECK FOR ITEMS ON THEIR BODY PLANT ITEMS ON THEIR BODY BRAND THEIR VICTIM DEGRADE A VICTIM WHO IS HOMOSEXUAL THE VICTIM IS USED IN CULT SACRIFICES OR PAEGAN RITUALS out of all of the them the most like reason is they checked him for something whether it was a wire (if he was wearing one the murder would’ve been recorded) or maybe looking drugs they thought he possibly had stashed down his pants or in his underwear the using the bathroom theory is a good one too some people like to say out off all four victims (Sue, Johnny Tina and Dana) Dana was spared and wouldn’t have known what was coming sadly though that appears not be true i also have a few questions I’m curious to get your thoughts on were there any bruises on Dana’s back? could Dana have made it outside (maybe they hadn’t realized he came to and were busy with Sue) after he broke free as the was blood on the and reportedly had grass stains on his pants there was also a report of a muffled scream was that a female screaming or a male screaming or were they not sure? (Some guys when scared let out high pitch girl screams I’m guilty of it and that was only through a scene of The Conjuring 2) It could also explain Johnny and Dana’s feet tied together they also could’ve tied Dana’s feet after this (maybe my mind is on overload on this)
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Post by Hope on Jan 29, 2022 17:16:26 GMT
Yes, I agree with everything you posted. My previous post was all over the place, but so are my thoughts. In regards to Justin, I do not hold much weight in his statements either, especially the hypnosis & dream parts. It's those few small things he told upon arriving home that morning that I wonder could hold some truth - Johnny arguing with someone, the boys getting into a fight, something about the tv.
Oh yeah, I went back & looked, Justin did say the one man killed Johnny & Sue and the other killed Dana. Again, don't hold much weight in it. Just thought it was interesting since Sue & Johnny were bludgeoned & stabbed and Dana was bludgeoned & strangled. It was always said Dana was killed differently & was the "softer kill", sadly I don't believe that to be true either. I do think Justin could have made his way around the living room after the fact, if he carefully chose where to step. His DNA was on the discarded tape so he must have been in there at some point. It is hard to believe no blood transferred to him & DT did say there wasn't any blood on his clothes, etc Sunday morning.
I do still believe the killers looking for something, drugs or a wire, is the most likely explanation for Dana's zipper. There are too many stories about drugs, drug rip-offs, LSD parties, etc for this to not be considered a possibility. Plus, the behavior of some of those kids within their circle after the murders, their changing stories of what they were up to that Saturday night. It seems as if these kids knew something & were scared.
Also, Plumas County certainly made use of narcotic informants, frequently. I'm not sure when the program began, but in the mid-80's they even took part in a program where informants were paid monthly. And paid quite well.
Reading newspaper articles from around the time of the murders, it's obvious people were turned out & used as informants. There'd be an article mentioning an arrest and when it came time to sentencing the drug charges would be dropped. Over & over again.
The article covering Gamberg's arrest of Rodney Lee is one example. It detailed a significant amount of narcotics & paraphernalia being confiscated, yet the drug charges were later dropped. Reading about the Choate incident, where Joey C was shot at for being a snitch, the article says Joey was an informant. Joey C was also an informant for Gamberg at some point.
In the late 70's, there was a huge drug bust with multiple people arrested. The evidence against those arrested was obtained through an undercover operation using informants. Included in those arrested were Steven Howard, Scott Forcino, and Baird McKnight. Someone who had been through a situation like that previously could have become suspicious of Johnny & Dana (whether or not they were actually informing) and would have known to check for wires, etc. If the ME looked for tape residue the same thought came to his mind.
The Darrell Welch incident comes to my mind a lot. In 1987(?) he murdered an associate he believed was a narc. He drove him to a remote forest service road and shot him. After his arrest, he told officers he had been set up & arrested because of a confidential narcotic informant 12 years prior and wasn't going to let that happen again. Darrell has never been mentioned in regards to Keddie, but he was living in Quincy/Plumas County at the time of the murders. The only time I have seen he brought up was by a former poster who knew Dana and Robert Silveria. He described Silveria's explosive temper, times he had witnessed Silveria jump on people & not stop until he wore himself out or was pulled off. He said Darrell Welch was also like that.
Dana did have those long, rectangular bruises on his buttocks. I am not sure about his back. His torn up pants sure did always seem odd. I can honestly envision a lot of different things including the scenerio you just brought up. If Dana was choked out first, he could have come to, broke the tape & been able to make a break for it while the killers were preoccupied/dealing with Sue. Some strikes from behind to stop/incapacitate him enough to regain control.
In regards to the scream, it was never mentioned whether it was male or female. However, in one of Crim or Bradley's files the scream is reported to have been a male.
Sorry so long!
EDIT TO ADD - This completely contradicts practically everything I said above. But I used to believe Dana was the initial target, that something led to him being choked out/strangled which then set everything into motion. In this scenario I was suspicious of Mr Seabolt. Dana is said to have started seeing Alyssa two weeks prior to the murders & only saw each while at the Sharps. I had wondered if Dana planned to meet up with Alyssa that night but was busted outside by Mr Seabolt first. A confrontation occurred outside which made its way into 28. And things escalated from there. Mrs Seabolt said James Sr. didn't sleep well and was up most of that night. Then he is gone before the murders are discovered, out cutting wood alone from 4am(?) to noon. He is one person MIA from Keddie and the amount of time he was gone would have allowed enough time to take Tina to Camp Eighteen. In addition to cutting wood, he was also a deer hunter so he very well may have been familiar with FF/Camp Eighteen. He was the one person I could envision the murder starting with and taking Tina afterwards. His alibi is uncorroborated since he was alone. There's the rumors about his behavior towards little girls (turns out he did have a prior history of inappropriate acts with a minor), him beating that woman and people claiming he was threatening them to be quiet. Multiple people said they suspected him. And I don't care what anyone says, Zonita's behavior in the documentary was weird AF. It's said that was a nervous laugh she let out, but she only laughed while recounting Sheila finding the bodies, and it's as if she couldn't control it & she let that laugh slip.
I sort of got away from this theory after I realized Dana's head injuries were not postmortem. But I still consider it a possibility & find Mr Seabolt suspicious.
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Post by kmik on Jan 29, 2022 19:03:03 GMT
All good thoughts. Here's another thought, and may just be a female thing, but if Dana's pants were unsnapped/zipper down a couple of inches is it possible that he loosened them for comfort while laying on the floor? His cigarettes had been tossed onto the couch (as a smoker myself I'm assuming he didn't want to crush them) so maybe he just loosened his pants and tossed his cigarettes to get comfortable.
Justin's dreams, reality, and stories are so unreliable but that's certainly worked to his advantage. Don Stoy went to 28 to reenact what Justin claimed to have seen from the bedroom door and he said it wasn't possible - which I take to mean it was possible to see what he said he saw but not from where he claimed to have been standing.
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Post by Hope on Jan 30, 2022 0:27:44 GMT
That's a good thought as well, kmik. Perhaps it is a girl thing, but I've done that same thing myself while relaxing. Guys pants were more form fitting back then, and tight = uncomfortable especially after wearing them for a long period of time.
Does anyone know what kind of button his pants had? Was it the type typically used for denim jeans? Or was it one of those metal snap buttons? I remember having some pants with those snap buttons. The button would pop undone occasionally and if left undone the zipper would start to come undone as well. TMI, I know! If it was a snap button, perhaps it being undone wasn't an intentional act, just something that happened. A typical button on the other hand would either have been unbuttoned by Dana (to use the bathroom, relax, etc) or by the killers for some reason.
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Post by snoho17 on Jan 30, 2022 6:42:53 GMT
Great post on Seabolt. Over and over we hear he went woodcutting, except for when it's said he had coffee with an elderly neighbor. Which is it, and which story did they tell the cops? He returned after the cops arrived, did he have a truck full of wood? Did they talk with the elderly neighbor lady about having coffee?
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Post by mew1987 on Jan 30, 2022 13:18:18 GMT
Yes, I agree with everything you posted. My previous post was all over the place, but so are my thoughts. In regards to Justin, I do not hold much weight in his statements either, especially the hypnosis & dream parts. It's those few small things he told upon arriving home that morning that I wonder could hold some truth - Johnny arguing with someone, the boys getting into a fight, something about the tv. Oh yeah, I went back & looked, Justin did say the one man killed Johnny & Sue and the other killed Dana. Again, don't hold much weight in it. Just thought it was interesting since Sue & Johnny were bludgeoned & stabbed and Dana was bludgeoned & strangled. It was always said Dana was killed differently & was the "softer kill", sadly I don't believe that to be true either. I do think Justin could have made his way around the living room after the fact, if he carefully chose where to step. His DNA was on the discarded tape so he must have been in there at some point. It is hard to believe no blood transferred to him & DT did say there wasn't any blood on his clothes, etc Sunday morning. I do still believe the killers looking for something, drugs or a wire, is the most likely explanation for Dana's zipper. There are too many stories about drugs, drug rip-offs, LSD parties, etc for this to not be considered a possibility. Plus, the behavior of some of those kids within their circle after the murders, their changing stories of what they were up to that Saturday night. It seems as if these kids knew something & were scared. Also, Plumas County certainly made use of narcotic informants, frequently. I'm not sure when the program began, but in the mid-80's they even took part in a program where informants were paid monthly. And paid quite well. Reading newspaper articles from around the time of the murders, it's obvious people were turned out & used as informants. There'd be an article mentioning an arrest and when it came time to sentencing the drug charges would be dropped. Over & over again. The article covering Gamberg's arrest of Rodney Lee is one example. It detailed a significant amount of narcotics & paraphernalia being confiscated, yet the drug charges were later dropped. Reading about the Choate incident, where Joey C was shot at for being a snitch, the article says Joey was an informant. Joey C was also an informant for Gamberg at some point. In the late 70's, there was a huge drug bust with multiple people arrested. The evidence against those arrested was obtained through an undercover operation using informants. Included in those arrested were Steven Howard, Scott Forcino, and Baird McKnight. Someone who had been through a situation like that previously could have become suspicious of Johnny & Dana (whether or not they were actually informing) and would have known to check for wires, etc. If the ME looked for tape residue the same thought came to his mind. The Darrell Welch incident comes to my mind a lot. In 1987(?) he murdered an associate he believed was a narc. He drove him to a remote forest service road and shot him. After his arrest, he told officers he had been set up & arrested because of a confidential narcotic informant 12 years prior and wasn't going to let that happen again. Darrell has never been mentioned in regards to Keddie, but he was living in Quincy/Plumas County at the time of the murders. The only time I have seen he brought up was by a former poster who knew Dana and Robert Silveria. He described Silveria's explosive temper, times he had witnessed Silveria jump on people & not stop until he wore himself out or was pulled off. He said Darrell Welch was also like that. Dana did have those long, rectangular bruises on his buttocks. I am not sure about his back. His torn up pants sure did always seem odd. I can honestly envision a lot of different things including the scenerio you just brought up. If Dana was choked out first, he could have come to, broke the tape & been able to make a break for it while the killers were preoccupied/dealing with Sue. Some strikes from behind to stop/incapacitate him enough to regain control. In regards to the scream, it was never mentioned whether it was male or female. However, in one of Crim or Bradley's files the scream is reported to have been a male. Sorry so long! EDIT TO ADD - This completely contradicts practically everything I said above. But I used to believe Dana was the initial target, that something led to him being choked out/strangled which then set everything into motion. In this scenario I was suspicious of Mr Seabolt. Dana is said to have started seeing Alyssa two weeks prior to the murders & only saw each while at the Sharps. I had wondered if Dana planned to meet up with Alyssa that night but was busted outside by Mr Seabolt first. A confrontation occurred outside which made its way into 28. And things escalated from there. Mrs Seabolt said James Sr. didn't sleep well and was up most of that night. Then he is gone before the murders are discovered, out cutting wood alone from 4am(?) to noon. He is one person MIA from Keddie and the amount of time he was gone would have allowed enough time to take Tina to Camp Eighteen. In addition to cutting wood, he was also a deer hunter so he very well may have been familiar with FF/Camp Eighteen. He was the one person I could envision the murder starting with and taking Tina afterwards. His alibi is uncorroborated since he was alone. There's the rumors about his behavior towards little girls (turns out he did have a prior history of inappropriate acts with a minor), him beating that woman and people claiming he was threatening them to be quiet. Multiple people said they suspected him. And I don't care what anyone says, Zonita's behavior in the documentary was weird AF. It's said that was a nervous laugh she let out, but she only laughed while recounting Sheila finding the bodies, and it's as if she couldn't control it & she let that laugh slip. I sort of got away from this theory after I realized Dana's head injuries were not postmortem. But I still consider it a possibility & find Mr Seabolt suspicious. Thanks for the response Hope I like hearing other people’s theories and seeing if we all have the same thoughts on the case or something different going through out heads I always just dismissed the scream as being a girls due to horror films have the final girl/scream queen you don’t really hear a guy scream but then I was asked if I had seen The Conjuring 2 and I remembered my scream in it (nowhere near the same thing) and wondered if it was Johnny or Dana who screamed Interesting theory on the Seabolts the explains the grass stains I actually wasn’t aware of the altercation between James and Dana I think Shiela previously said that Alyssa had a crush on Johnny and Tina had a crush on Dana (that led me to assume that was one of the possible reasons Tina went home that night she learned Dana would be staying over I’ve been at the center of a young girls crush and she tended to hang around when I visited the house and find pointless reasons to be there) I’m also wondering what exactly did both Shiela and Jamie touch that morning Sue was covered a the blanket and Dana pretty much was too yet she told the Seabolts there were three dead people in her living room and she didn’t know who they were how could she be entirely sure there was three she also spotted the bent knife assuming it a switchblade plus did Jamie check for pulses or some other way to see if anyone was alive the light switch in the boys bedroom also have been caused by Jamie I'm also pretty sure there was blood on the outside of the front door knob it I’m no expert but depending on how much Shiela could've ended up with this on her hand or at least see it when she put her bags down to open the door surely if she did something must’ve registered that something wasn’t right before she opened the door also about Justin (yes this again) it’s a possibility he could’ve made his way around Johnny and Dana but then depending on who placed the blanket over Sue (I’m assuming it wasn’t him) he would’ve had to have lifted it back off her which would also require lifting it off Dana and place it back surely even at his age you would think to check the bodies of the uncovered victim/s oh and the reason I asked about on Dana’s back because I was thing if he was on his stomach when choked they might’ve knelt on his back as they did it
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Post by mew1987 on Jan 30, 2022 13:50:01 GMT
Does anyone know what kind of button his pants had? Was it the type typically used for denim jeans? Or was it one of those metal snap buttons? I remember having some pants with those snap buttons. The button would pop undone occasionally and if left undone the zipper would start to come undone as well. TMI, I know! If it was a snap button, perhaps it being undone wasn't an intentional act, just something that happened. A typical button on the other hand would either have been unbuttoned by Dana (to use the bathroom, relax, etc) or by the killers for some reason. These are the style of jeans Dana was wearing that night I tried to find ones with a snap lock button but couldn’t that’s not to say there isn’t any
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Post by Hope on Jan 30, 2022 20:51:32 GMT
Thank you mew! I enjoy hearing other people's theories as well. In the past few days alone, each of guys have brought up some really interesting thoughts & possibilities. Things that hadn't occurred to me or individual thoughts that tie well into a thought someone else had. Lots of great ideas & possibilities to discuss! I think we all agree being able to discuss the case & share theories, ideas, opinions is important. I had always assumed the scream was from a female as well. I had assumed Sue & that was why she was gagged. But there was a report from Crim or Bradley which referenced the scream, it only said: "scream heard was from a male". So, not much info to go off of. I need to clarify something so I'm not starting even more rumors about this case! Dana & Mr. Seabolt did not get into an altercation that night. That was just me speculating about something I'd considered before And you're right, Sheila did say in her book that Alyssa had a crush on Johnny & Tina had a crush on Dana. That's what makes this case so frustrating & difficult - there are three conflicting stories told about every little thing! The reports from 81 state Alyssa was Dana's gf of 2 weeks, in her book Sheila says Alyssa liked Johnny and then we learn there's statements from 81 revealing Sheila & Dana had a previous relationship. He thought he may be the father of Sheila's baby & the HS counselor told LE Sheila & Dana were becoming close again prior to the murders. So what's the truth? Who was really seeing who? I've also wondered if Tina herself chose to go home that night, because she knew Dana would be spending the night. That's a good point about the blanket. I can't see Justin being able to maneuver around the Living room with a blanket & not drag the blanket through blood or get blood on himself either. Do you remember how it became a fact that Justin is the one who covered Sue? All I can remember is Josh once saying " Justin took a blanket from the bed and covered Sue. This is an undisputed fact". But where did Josh get that information from? Who told him that? It's never been mentioned in any of the files that Justin covered Sue. As you said, at least Sheila, Jamie, & Don Davis were in that cabin before LE & who knows what was touched or done to alter the crime scene. And another good point you made, in the documentary I believe Sheila mentioned seeing three bodies, one under a blanket which turned out to be her mom. But what did she say in 81 to LE, did she mention the blanket? If she came back to the Seabolts mentioning 3 bodies Sue not covered at that point?? It's too bad she wasn't immediately interviewed at the scene. And thank you for the Levi's photos. So regular button & no coincidence.
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