Misc Discussion

What ever Justin knew or didn't, those kids woke up to an absolute mind screw. What I wish we knew is what exactly he told Marylin. Both her and Marty said he'd start to talk and then clam up, but no real details on what he said. What you say about Justin makes absolute sense, people were already saying he has no excuse to be silent once he was an adult, he's being attacked without knowing if he does even remember. And thanks for reminding me a child phycologist was in fact consulted on how to interview him. I do think Justin didn't have to see Tina go through the back door to know she'd been carried out the back.
Think how easy everything would have been for Justin if he'd just named Marty? If Justin saw people, I don't think they were familiar to him.
I still think it's super weird how little he heard exchanged between the killers and victims. There was obviously some struggle, there had to be some sort of verbal altercation (jmo). He says he hears J/D enter the house and stomp their feet, Johnny argues and someone say's "Sue". There just had to have been more. And where did he get his timing from, 12:00am, for J/D arriving?
Marty said Justin was a light sleeper and would wake up when Marty stoked the fire at night, often getting up to use the bathroom. Is that what happened that night? And who's freak'n sweater was left on the back of the toilet? Sorry, I'm all over the place, I think I need to do some more reading on Justin again
Edit to add* I do think it's weird how the psychologist suggested Justin be handled, that is, without a psychologist present.

So here's a timeline of thing's I found interesting in Justin's statements. His stories evolve and become more detailed over the days. I feel like he's trying to incorporate things he's heard, I think he's a pretty intuitive kid, and I think he's being led by those questioning him, not on purpose. I think they want him to have the answers, and in knowing certain things, unknowingly push him towards corroborating answers. I think he did go into the living room after the murders. But I don't think he saw the killers. Or I'm completely wrong
Justins Statements

4/12/81 Went to bed @10pm. Heard nothing saw nothing. Slept the whole night through until woken by banging on the window. When he went to bed Sue was awake on the couch and Greg, Ricky, Tina were all in bed. Nobody else in house. (Shaver report)

4/13/81 Marylin brings Justin into Sheriff office where he says the same thing as the previous day. (Brubaker report)

4/14/81 Justin went to the Sharp residence about noon. He and Ricky road bikes around until about 6pm. Tina was playing at the Seabolts next door. Dana and John were raking leaves. Dana was wearing cut off jeans and and a white t-shirt. John was wearing red shorts and a grayish white short sleeved shirt. John was wearing a red, white and black bandana. Sue was wearing a blue shirt and brown pants.

About 1;30Johnny put on a purple jogging suite. The boys hitchhiked into Quincy.

Sheila was hanging outside talking to Alyssa.

Tina came home @ 7:30 to do the dishes and went back to the Seabolsts. Justin and Ricky played cars all over the house.

Sue changed into a robe that was white with blue flowers that had yellow and red coloring in them. Justin Ricky and Sue watched The Love Boat. Tina came home 9-9;30 and said she was going to bed. Justin said the big piece of cardboard found on the queen bed (Sheila and Tina’s) was usually between the bed and the wall standing up.

Tina went into the bedroom and turned off the light. He said he didn’t wake up during the night but heard thumping.

Justins boat dream. “Dream Man” had short black straight hair that came down just below the ears, no part, combed straight back. Black glasses with gold rings and gold frames, the lenses were blackish brown. Subject had mustache. Man wore blue jeans, jean jacket. Man had a rounded nose, medium sized, and was wearing black cowboy boots with rounded toes.This man had a “punching fight with Johnny. Dana was there. Dana and Johnny were fighting with two men. Dana was almost drunk.He didn’t see Tina.

Justin saw a body laying on the bow. She had black hair and there was a shirt (sic) (sheet?) over her. He looked under the sheet and she was split on her chest. He never did see Tina. Justin said this more than once, which contradicts his story of 2 men rushing Tina out by her arms. The way he says this doesn’t make sense to me. Tina wasn’t a 170lb person, no need for 2 to carry her by her arms when one man could pick her up like a small puppy.

The man had a knife like a pocket knife. The man cut Sue. He also had a hammer in his hand. He saw no one with him. There was another man dressed like him. The last time Justin saw this man is when the manthat killed Sue dove into the water. The other man had a pocket knife.Jamie woke him up. He didn’t go into the front room at all

The man fighting with John 32 5’6 and a little shorter than Dana. Nobody said his name, but the man called Sue by name. Doesn’t know why they were fighting. He doesn’t remember anyone coming into the boys room and didn’t hear Tina leave the house. The blood smears in both the boys and girls room were O, same as the Sharps.

The second man had long brown hair, past his ears, halfway down his neck, curly at the end. He wore glasses, same kind of glasses as the other man. He had a flat nose, clean shaven, no sideburns. Jean pants and Jean jacket. Boots like army boots with waffle stomper type soles. About 30yo, he’d never seen him before.

This man had a knife in his hand and was using a knife on Johnny. Justin was down by Sue trying to take care of her and stop the blood. He tried to patch her up with a cloth., just thumping.

Earlier Justin said the phone rang about 1pm and doesn’t know who talked.

(Crim files) Justin mentions 2 men here. He makes it sound as if he were trying to help Sue during the attacks, maybe that’s what he’d hoped had happened.

4/14/81 Doug Thomas hypnosis session.

Sheila is at the house helping Sue and the boys rake leaves. Tina is wearing a blue shirt and blue pantsand tennis shoes.

Justin was inside eating lunch when the phone rang @ 1pm, but doesn’t know who talked.

Sheila called and talked to a friend @ 4:30 Tina sleeps on the Queen sized bed with her mom. Tina sleeps on the right side of the bed. Justin could still hear the T.V. when he went to sleep. Didn’t wake up didn’t hear anything..Oh wait heard some thumping that “went into his dream.”

Justin says Dana and Johnny were both fighting with one man?

Doug: A punching fight. Where was Dana?

Justin: He was there.

D: What was Dana doing while he (John) had a punching fight?

J: He was fighting the other man.

D: What other man?

J: No! They were fighting the man.

D: Both of them were fighting one man?

J: Yeah.

D: Are you sure there wasn’t two?

J: Dana was almost drunk. Justin has a real hard time “remembering” how many men were in there, and changes the subject. Doug seems like he’s having a hard time reconciling the murder scene being committed by one person. So prods him with “are you sure it wasn’t two?

D: Dana was almost drunk. OK. And there was only one other man in there?

J: That’s what I saw. What does that mean?
D: You only saw one man in there. Still not confirming 2 men.

J: There was a crowd that gathered

Doug asks Justin if the man fighting Johnny (with his fists) had anything else in his hands. Justin says a knife he uses to cut Sue and he also had a hammer in his hand. At the same time?
Justin says he couldn’t see anybody else with the man and then there was another man “dressed up like him. But this man was in the crowd gathered around Sue.

Justin “supposes” this other man had a pocket knife in his hands Again, is he trying to placate Thomas probing about the pocket knife and 2nd man?

Justin did not see a gun of any kind. Because of the site ramp being found, the pellet, and I believe tying into some of the wounds, PCSO really believes that pellet gun was brought to the scene by the killers. *This was a hold back, and the thing Justin couldn’t confirm* I think that’s important.

Justin says he woke up “because it was morning” and then says he was woken up by Jaime. Did he wake up at sometime, see the scene, then go back to the bedroom where he fell asleep, dreamt about the murders and THEN was woken up by Jaime?

Says he didn’t hear Tina get up, didn’t hear her leave the house. No "what's going on?" And no "help, help".
Doug asks him to focus on the second man, was his hair long or short “ I don’t know. Long. 2nd man had same glasses and clothes as the first, with a flat nose. Hair curled at the end.

*back tracking, Doug asks about the first mans age and Justin replies “32” Doug says “ok, about 32” other man was “about 30”

Second man had on “marked army boots” green in color. “Like hiking boots” waffle stomper souls.

D: He used a knife on Johnny, was there anybody else he used a knife on?

J: No. Important here to know if Justin is still talking about 1 man or 2

Doug: You mean you didn’t hear…….name?

J: No

Justin talks about trying to patch Sue up. He brought a rag to stop the bleeding and through it into the water. Justin talks like he’s there trying to help Sue while the killers are still there. He talks like he’s just standing in the middle of everything while it’s going on, as if he’s a ghost nobody can see.

4/15/81 Composite sketches with Harlan Emery and Doug Thomas

I don’t see Justin describing a t-shirt, but the artist Embery mentions drawing the tshirt.

Justin mentions a kitchen knife, specifically a pairing knife. With a brown wooden handle.

Says John and Dana came home together. Says he doesn’t know what time they got home. According to Marilyn, Justin told her the boys came in about midnight. She reported this pretty early on.

Justin says the man with black hair killed Johnny with a knife, and was the same person who tied Johnny up “with tape” that came from “his pocket.”

Says the ceiling light was on in the living room and the T.V. was off. States he never saw the phone.

4/15/81 (Crim Report) Justin says one subject is about 8” taller than Dana. *I thought Dana was 5’10, putting this guy at 6’6 ish?*

4/18/81 Justin’s polygraph. Justin was given a rough sketch of the Sharp home and drew lines to show how the fight went down. “See attachment 7” is noted, but neither I nor anyone else I’m aware of, has ever seen this drawing. Is that because the drawings are inaccurate? Justin says the two men were in the house before the boys got home, standing in front of Sue on the couch. John argues with the two men and Dana tries to run out the back but is hit with a hammer by the brown haired man. Sue rushes to Johnny. Justin says he goes back to his room at this point BUT says the suspects then tie up John and Dana. And Tina comes out asking “what’s going on” the two men bum rush Tina outside as she cries “help, help”. The brown haired man returned to cover Sue. The scenario Justin describes here just doesn’t line up with the blood and body placement.

4/21/81 Justin says he could only see Sue’s head and shoulders on the couch.

4-21-81, From Don Stoy's Files where Don Stoy takes into possession Justin's shoes from Doug Thomas, supposedly

worn the night of the murders. Stoy finds no traces of blood anywhere.

Don Stoy goes to 28 as, on the 21st, Justin was interviewed and he remembered seeing "one of

the knives" sticking from the "south wall near the west window" of the L/R. This would be the

wall by the TV. The chunks of wall Justin mentioned were already in evidence, but Don noticed

more knife marks in remaining sections, so he seized them, marked #110 I think Justin could have seen this if he woke up, after the murders. I’ve kinda wondered in the past if it wasn’t him who placed the weapons on the table.

4/22/81 Stoy notices most of the knife marks are raised to the right (a lefty?) but one is raised to the left.

Marty was said to be a lefty, and a vet. If true, I could see why the sheriffs would want to take a good look at him.



5/19/82 Dr. Dash hypnosis session. Justin says he was at the Seabolts and Ricky and Sheila had to talk to an officer, then he did. Sheila and the boys went with their uncle. And THEN he had to go back home and get his mom.

The next day him and Ricky hung out.

Justin: The next morning………we went to the Sheriff’s office………..



Dash: Umm, mmm.

Justin: Then after that I went home…… and played with Ricky. We went to the Arcade…..and played games…..and then Ricky went home….then that night me and my brothers were playing with the electronic games on T.V……….then we went to bed…… *probably “brother’s” is a typo, but the Smartt’s had an Atari or Ntelivsion?

And next morning at ten we went to the funeral. Then came back to the house and went bowling…..And then came back home and went to the Arcade…..and the Sheriff was there. And the Sheriff came and picked me up and brought me to Joan’s house. Then I watched him leave….



Dash: If you take a real good look at him….Have you ever seen a person like that before?



Justin: In the dream.

Dash: In the dream. How about outside the dream?

Justin: Mm, mm (no)

Justin: It’s a pocket knife.

Dash: Mm, mm. Do you see the pocket knife there?

Justin: Yeah.

Dash: Now, let’s zoom in real tight, get a real close up shot and take a good long look at the pocket knife, and describe anything about it that you see.

Justin: It has about three____________

Dash: Mm, mm.

Dr. Dash/J. Smartt



Page Ten



Justin: It’s brown ……………..and it has some other gadgets on it.



Dash: Some other gadgets on it, mm, mm. What other gadgets do you see on that pocket knife?



Justin: A can opener.

Dash: Mm, mm.



Justin: And a screw



Dash: Mm, mm.

Justin: And scissors.

Dash: And scissors, okay.

Justin: A spoon and a fork.

Dash: Mm, mm.

Justin: And that’s all

Dash: And does the knife have any kind of writing on it?

Justin: No.

Dash: Any kind of little symbol?

Justin: No.

Dash: Or sign on it?

It sounds as if they’re wanting to know if the knife Justin describes is like the one found in the trash, a “swiss army” type pocket knife. The knife was collected on the 12th. Justins asked more than once if he saw a symbol, I’d be willing to bet the knife from the store had a cross on it. Maybe Justin can’t confirm this bit because he didn’t actually see the knife in the first place.

Justin describes the man with the dark hair cutting Sue, doctor Dash asks if the killer uses his right or left hand. Justin say’s the right. Again with the handedness, why ask unless there’s reason to believe a lefty was involved. I think that was one of the valid reasons to look at Marty, he was said to be left handed. By just one person I believe, who wanted him gone.

Dash: His right hand. And what is the other man doing?

Justin: Sitting there. Sitting?

Justin says he heard three thumps. And that he’d been talking to Rick about what they’d do the next day.

7/8/81 Justin photo line up

Justin was given five similar photo’s to look at, including a photo of H. Thompson. Justin states that “none of the faces are right in any of the photos”

9/18/81 Justin is shown a video line up of six pairs of men

Justin say’s men # 4&6 are close. With number 4 the closest. While being driven back to school, he mentions again that #4 was the closest. #4 was S McKim

I believe Rod DeCrona interviewed Justin in 1986, no transcript, no file.

Will we ever know the truth? Probably not but he's not a 12 year old boy now he's a grown man and has been for years. If what he told in 1981 was lies to appease LE then that's what he should be telling now.  There's still a lot that bothers me about what he told and especially this:

On 4-14-81 at 1510hrs (3:10pm) Justin was placed under hypnosis by DT with Crimm present. In DT's files it was reported that Justin described how he took a rag and tried to stop Mrs. Sharp's bleeding, and he said that Mrs. Sharp had a cut under her breast (he did not say breast, but he described the area with his hand). No one else knew of this wound but the investigating officers, since it was covered by Mrs.Sharps gown.

To believe this was something he had heard that was leaked from PCSO would mean that LE had time to leak this info, after the Sacramento autopsy examinations on the 13th, to people(?) connected with Justin in time for him to have been able to tell it to LE by the following afternoon. According to Forcino's report he finished up his investigation at the coroner's office at 1930hrs (on 4-13-81 at 7:30pm) then delivered one item to DOJ Sacramento then started toward Redding to deliver the other items. Using Google that drive from Sac to Redding to Quincy would have taken over 5 hours and by that afternoon Justin was telling this story. This was all before cell phones and texting

The tape possibly being bat tape is a great idea that I definitely think is possible but if it is shouldn't Ricky's DNA be on that tape too? I know there appears to be a baseball on the floor but where is the bat? Did Ricky even have a bat? As you've said before, Justin walking into the living room after hearing Sheila's screams and stepping on the tape is a great scenario also - but that doesn't answer how he knew of the cut on Sue's chest 

I don't think that Justin's stories were all lies either - just not sure what to believe. This is crazy but is also something I think of often - what are the chances that 3 kids go to sleep at 10:00pm and don't wake up until 8:00am and not one of them had to get up overnight to use the bathroom?  

I know Hope but it still doesn’t explain how Justin knew about Sue’s chest wound and location by Tuesday afternoon. If Justin heard that from the fence then I’d find it hard to believe Paula didn’t too.

Richard knowing who got it the worst is questionable but he didn’t to my knowledge describe Sue’s chest wound. It’s all a mystery to me. 

I think the tape possibly being bat take makes sense but my son played baseball from 5-18 and we never purchased bat tape -ever and this was in 1995-2008. But who knows? If they owned a bat then that’s possibly one more thing missing from the scene? 

Something I just thought, Justin and Greg played cars "all over the house", and the cardboard was "usually against the wall" did he see it up against the wall while he was playing?