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Post by Hope on Nov 27, 2023 12:46:00 GMT
Where are Alyssa's Interviews & What Did Alyssa See? What "shit" did Alyssa see "indicating she was there"? Perhaps things that would have added her to the murder conspiracy had she also spent the night sleeping over 28, like Justin? Shit similar to the details Justin was aware of? Is that why keddie28 has never published any of Alyssa's interviews? Was whatever she saw & told PCSO similar to what Justin and Paula saw? Can't publish her interviews because people would begin to question Justin's statements to LE? Begin to notice everything Justin knew could have been learned Sunday morning, after being removed from the boys bedroom window? Not only has keddie28 not posted Alyssa's interviews, he pretends they don't even exist. According to the PON, she was interviewed by Crim & Stoy, yet k28's "summaries” of these officer's files include nothing about Alyssa. Completely skipped over with zero acknowledgement. Her interview was also not present in the original Crim Files he uploaded, suggesting it's another report purposely removed prior to publishing.
On 4/20/81 DOJ Bradley interviewed Jamie. This is the first interview where he changes his actions the morning of 4/12 and begins to deny going inside cabin 28. Due to Jamie's change in story, Don Stoy then interviews him on 4/28/81. That same day he also interviews Paula again and specifically asks her if she went inside 28. Why did Stoy ask Paula this? Had PCSO learned something about Paula going inside?? Could Alyssa's interviews contain this information and that's why keddie28 is hiding them? The day after Stoy asks Paula if she went inside Zonita & Jamie make a special trip to PCSO. Jamie tells them for the 3rd time that he did not go inside. Zonita wants them to know she was not outside the entire time that morning. Why does she need to tell LE this? Because the kids were out there unsupervised is the obvious answer.
Also being hidden are Zonita's interviews from 4/20 & 4/29 (at least). This includes the interview where she informed LE of Chuck Walke having scabbed over cuts on the back of his right hand. And in that interview she gives a different account of Mr. Seabolt's whereabouts on the morning of 4/12/81. In Shaver's crime scene interviews with witnesses, he was told Seabolt Sr was out cutting wood. In Zonita's missing interview she told LE he was having coffee with Mrs. Otis, an elderly neighbor. She also told them Sr hadn't slept well that night because of a rash he had. What else does this report include? What else did she have to say about Chuck?
Anytime keddie28 withholds an interview/report it is because there is something significant within it. Something that puts his theory into question. He obviously is no longer confident in his theory, otherwise there would be no reason to withhold & hide certain reports. Anytime an individual pushes a theory they should be able to lay it all out there, all files in their original form. Keddie28 has shown over & over & over again that he is incapable of laying it all out there, everyone should ask themselves why. His members should be questioning him, calling him out every single time he does this. He needs to be held accountable, truth & justice are on the line. Not to mention restoring the name of all those he has falsely accused. This case WILL be solved. Advances in DNA & forensics will solve this case, he'll then be forced to admit his lies. He can't carry on the lies forever, although he sure is trying. "Solving Keddie" could still be his legacy, but first he has to man up and right the prior wrongs he's made along the way.
I'll post the full keddie28 post I pulled that statement about Alyssa from. There's some telling information in there.
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Post by Hope on Nov 27, 2023 13:40:43 GMT
Actually, here is the sole original interview of Alyssa's that has been published. It is from 4/28/81, this is where she describes Kathy Beckley approaching her in the hallway of the High School.
Notice how page 2 has been cropped? Why is it cropped? Because that is the end of the report, or because more was discussed and whatever it was k28 doesn't want out there? We wouldn't know, we can't say for sure. None of us researching the case can form proper opinions as long as this continues. No one can develop a theory when that theory is based on a mixture of original reports which have been cropped up and potentially altered + k28 summaries. He cannot be trusted. If the rest of us cannot view the original ourselves, then that report should not be taken into consideration while theorizing.
My question is, did Alyssa say something on 4/28 that led to Stoy reinterviewing Paula and Jamie? Is there where k28 got “Alyssa saw shit” from? Stoy spoke with Alyssa first. Next was Paula at 5pm, then Jamie. He asks Paula if she went inside. He tries to clarify Jamie's changing of stories regarding going inside 28. The next day, 4/29 Jamie & Zonita pay a visit to pcso. Jamie wants to make it clear he did not go inside 28. Zonita for the first time wants to tell them she was not outside the entire time on the morning of 4/12. Was something coming to a head? Unfortunately, PCSO had other stuff to worry about, because this same exact time Phillip S was in jail confessing to being inside the cabin when the homicides occured.
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Post by kmik on Nov 28, 2023 4:42:26 GMT
I have the same question - where are her interviews? It really started with the Shaver report that clearly lists her as a witness then - nothing. Even Robert Wilkinson is questioned but not Alyssa who was there? Greg and Sheila were also on Shaver's report with an explanation as to why Sheila was questioned later on - and Greg was on the list even though he was not interviewed - but Shaver noted that he was not contacted at the time. Why nothing for Alyssa
I know the PON list doesn't include Shaver as having interviewed her but that doesn't mean much (we know that Jim the ex and Vance Debilzon were removed) so how much more was it modified? There's definitely an interview with Alyssa somewhere besides the necklace report - we know she was questioned about the green van.
You have really laid out a good scenario here and brought up some really good thoughts and questions. Why was LE asking who went into the cabin? Was it to find out if Justin really saw anything before the murders were discovered, to know whose fingerprints might show up in the cabin, or who covered Sue - or all three? I believe Jaime Seabolt went into the cabin. That's what he said the first day and I believe it - why he changed his story I cannot imagine - especially since he should have wanted LE to know in case his fingerprints were on something. I believe Paula stood at the fence and looked inside the front door like she said she did and I believe Justin did the same thing. Did they actually go inside the cabin - who knows - but I don't know why they would have.
Justin clearly lied about witnessing the murders and the composites were a joke - the drawings look like the same person. How he knew about the cut on Sue's chest is a mystery to me but so are a lot of things in this case. Did Jaime cover Sue? I don't know but it certainly sounds like a very humane thing to do if he did but why not admit it? He told Shaver on the morning of the murders he could not find Tina or her mother so if he covered Sue then he lied. And if he lied about that then he (and anyone else involved in the lie) are absolutely no better than Cruzita Jaramillo or Kathy Beckly who lied about the ride.
I go back to the very beginning when Sheila opened the door to 28. She never said she saw her mom and actually told Shaver that afternoon that she saw the bodies and two were bound - but they were all bound. In her book she said she didn't remember seeing her mom. So how would that be possible if Sue was not covered when Sheila opened the door to 28? The cabin was tiny (about 11/12 feet long?), Dana was on his stomach, Sue and Johnny on their side/back. Sheila was standing about 5 ft above the victims on the floor and Sue's white, fringed, flowered gown should have been very recognizable if she wasn't covered.
Isn't it sad that after 43 years some of the simplest of questions still are not answered. You run a very good forum here Hope and you'd think that at least one person would reach out to you and say, "hey you got that part wrong" - but I guess they're all gonna carry it with them to the grave. My question is why
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Post by snoho17 on Nov 28, 2023 7:27:12 GMT
I will say that an officer noted Mr. Seabolt rolled up around noon with a truck full of wood. Why the discrepancy in stories, I haven't the foggiest.
But I do think if I'm an officer at a homicide/missing child scene and some lone guy comes home 3+ hours later, I'm gonna be asking the inhabitants if they may have woken up while he was getting ready/leaving. Heck, we know everyone in Keddie was asked if they'd heard anything/awoken at any point.
Even if it's a long shot, you have to ask.
Now that I'm thinking about it, it would be really bizarre if he was written off because his "alibi" was just so good. "Oh, I was just out alone in the woods since 4am, just ask the wife". Then wife says he was having coffee with an elderly friend. The PCSO had to have dove in farther than that?? I've met some spry little old ladies, but none that took visitors in for coffee at 4am.
Makes me think Z was asleep when he left, didn't know the actual time. But she wanted people to think she did. "He was up all night tossing and turning because of a rash"?
She makes it sound like he kept her up as well. A rash? I was waayyy less dramatic when I had the shingles, just saying
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Post by kmik on Nov 28, 2023 14:24:27 GMT
Lol! I know like everything about this case seems off. Woodcutting, itchy legs, coffee with Mrs. Ottis?? In the Shaver report Jaime was the only one to mention Sr. out cutting wood and that seems to be only because he was explaining why he and his mom went to get the boys out of 28 instead of his mom and dad. Two weeks later when reinterviewed, Zonita may have completely forgotten Sr. had gone to cut wood? Or maybe he did both
James did come back with a load of wood and Mrs. Ottis was an older woman living in Keddie. So maybe he cut wood then went by Mrs. Ottis for his morning cup of coffee? Hopefully they interviewed Mrs. Ottis because she was living right there
Where are Alyssa's interviews and where are anyone's complete interview
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Post by Hope on Nov 30, 2023 1:30:43 GMT
Absolutely. I agree, just as bad. I believe people are keeping secrets, even while other people's lives have been into hell. The internet doesn't deserve to know s*#t, but let's hope if an investigator knocks on their door they'll finally be forthcoming with the truth. We could get further with what's the truth if it wasn't for a gatekeeper continually offering one sided look into the case so that they can continue to claim they solved it. That's the truth. I don't know what to say beyond that, besides things are f'd up.
This is all important, need to know info. I've been revisiting and reconsidering everything we know and have some different opinions than I used to. Shaver's report is a big one, I now think of it as a poorly written mess. I wonder when he actually wrote & submitted it. A lot of the reports.
We know he didn't write each of those interviews out as they occurred because Sheila was the last one in the bunch to be interviewed and her interview is right in the middle. So we're working with reports that were written hours(?), says(?) after the interview took place. Let's hope the officer took notes at the time, but we can't assume for certain they did. It seems we're working with a cliff notes version of what was discussed based on that officer's memory of what was said during these interviews. Minor details in times or context can completely warp the entire interview.
Brubaker & Shaver were together when Sheila was interviewed & their reports contain zero of the same info. It's really frustrating. Shaver focused his report on after she discovered the crime scene and Brubaker focused on Saturday activities+ what Richard and Don told her. Had both written full reports perhaps some of this could be sorted out. Shaver says he interviewed Sheila at her uncle's on Sunday at 4:45pm, but Brubaker wrote Richard & Don "told her that same day, at 5pm". They both definitely wrote these reports out sometime after they occured based on the order it appears in Shaver's report and the wording used in Brubaker. It Brubaker hadn't mentioned they were together we'd have no clue that was the case. Brubaker is the only officer saying Sheila said they left Quincy at 6pm. Every other report has her saying it early afternoon. Had Shaver documented what she had to say we could make sense of it. It appears to me 6pm is based on Brubaker's memory of the interview, his recollection of what was discussed. I'm not saying that's exactly what happened, but I will say it can't be ruled out.
The corruption claims are still a joke. I do believe these officers were doing everything in their power to solve this case. But mistakes were made. They'd never encountered investigated a case of this magnitude. It's unfortunate, these reports are not up to par, because they'd never dealt with anything close to this.
With Shaver's report I think it's possible he never wrote out Alyssa's interview, a complete error on his part. I think it's possible one of two things happened. One, he interviewed her and forgot to write it out. Or two, he wrote that cover sheet out at the time, listed everyone at the scene he intended to interview but ended up missing Alyssa. Wilkinson and Dareyl would have been added later since they weren't initially there. Greg was, but he never interviewed Greg. We know he forgot two important interviews - Mike Hamilton and checking out the Walke property. If Brubaker hadn't mentioned those interviews of Shaver's, we'd never know they existed. Shaver messed up & forgot them. And it's a shame Brubaker didn't write his own report on Walke's instead of defaulting to Shaver. It's possible Shaver included them in a separate report, but the Hamilton & Walked report occured before Sheila's interview, so we can deduce all should have been accounted for in the available Shaver report. How many other interviews occurred which were never documented?
With the Seabolts there are existing reports which are being withheld. Zonita and Paula on 4/20/81. These were interviews of Bradley's. Jamie's interview with Bradley on 4/20 has been released, but not Zonita& Paula. It seems likely there was one with Alyssa as well. It seems these interviews are pertinent as they are when stories start changing. It's all so frustrating. There's a reason specific interviews are withheld, there's information in there that is important to the bigger picture. Without them it's a guessing game and someone can continue on with their misinformation campaign.
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Post by Hope on Nov 30, 2023 1:31:38 GMT
I started compiling all statements regarding the scene that morning. It is very important to know what Sheila saw when she opened the door that morning. It seems impossible to know based on the available reports. Almost all have Sheila saying "three bodies". These are based mostly on the Seabolt's statements. They all have her returning and saying "there's three bodies over there". That could allude to Sue not being covered. There is a later Sheila interview with the DOJ where she says she thought she saw a green blanket covering one of the bodies. But was this when she first opened the door or something she saw at some point through the open front door?
So, the Seabolts have her saying "three bodies ". We know from interviews over the years Johnny is what seems to stand out in her mind. And that makes sense since he was closest to the door. The cabin was small, but if you imagine yourself opening that front door I can see why Johnny is where her eyes would focus and whats stuck with her all these years. I don't know what to make of it, but her saying "three bodies" leads me to wonder if Sue wasn't covered at that point. And if so, that points to Jamie having been the one to cover Sue before LE arriving. I don't blame him for doing so either, it was the decent thing to do. But if that's what happened, keeping quiet all these years hasn't helped at all. We know PCSO/Gamberg had some evidence against Jamie. I believe the Seabolts kept secrets and doing so has hurt the case substantially. Their stories began to change on 4/20/81 and as long as those interviews are hidden away we'll never get to the bottom of it.
PCSO certainly should have questioned the Seabolt family about Sr.'s woodcutting that morning. Again, as long as files are hidden away, we'll never know the truth and can only guess. Out cutting wood vs having coffee with Mrs. Otis are two very different things. We know the Seabolts did odd jobs for income, including selling firewood. But how much wood does one need? According to Arts statement (which has also never been released), he said he passed the large woodpile next to the Seabolts car. And imo, we can see some large woodpiles at the Seabolts in the crime scene photos. TBH, I don't trust what the Seabolts had to say and without their interviews to make sense of things we're stuck. Zonita protected her own imo and it caused irreversible harm.
Sidenote: why couldn't Art get the color of Kathy's cabin right? Not saying he's involved, but what was he really doing out and about that night? He was right behind the Sharp's cabin, at a crucial time. Claimed to be going to see Boscoe yet didn't. He said he heard she was away, yet she was home with another male companion. He described her cabin as green, but it was pink. He said he returned home, but his roommate said he never returned home and they shared a bedroom so he should know. Mike Malone stopped by before Art left. Chuck said maybe Mike saw him & Henry in Keddie. Mike had a brother named Steve, “acid Steve “? DT lists Mike as a suspect and “devil worshipper”. It's all so bizarre.
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Post by Hope on Nov 30, 2023 2:35:44 GMT
I think we really do need to consider the possibility the younger kids entered 28 after being removed from the cabin that morning. It makes more sense than anything we've considered before. And that's not "rewriting what the files say". That's not it at all. If you think about it by the time each of us became interested in this case, the prevailing theory had already been established from the documentary. Beliefs about Justin had already been established. Let those go and consider everything fresh.
This seems to be a likely sequence of events:
- Zonita goes to 25 and has jan call 911. Changes out of her robe at some point, either before going to 25 or when she returned.
- While she's gone Jamie removes the boys from the bedroom window.
- Jamie says he "started to wait" for Les and Doug to return but proceeded without them. I'd take that to be when he went inside.
- Zonita was still at 25. She told PCSO she returned to find Jamie, Alyssa and Sheila at the back of the house and it looked like jamie was about to go inside, she told him no. I'd say she was lying. Jamie did go inside while she was gone. She was at 25. Jamie, Alyssa and Sheila were at the back of the house. The boys already removed. That leaves Justin, Rick, Greg and Paula unaccounted for but outside. And gives them time to at the very least look in the front door or go inside.
- This all happened before Zonita, Les and Doug came over from 25.
- Something happened for Zonita to make a special trip to tell PCSO she wasn't outside the entire time. Why would she tell them that?
- Jamie recanted going inside 3x, including that special trip to "make it clear he didn't go inside". I definitely believe it's likely he covered Sue, perhaps more, which is why his mom made him recant.
- There was some reason Stoy asked Paula if she went inside the cabin.
- Those kids were unaccompanied at the crime scene. Paula and Justin potentially both lied and said they saw from the fenceline. Zonita admits she "wasn't outside the entire time", there's a reason for this.
- I even wonder if this is how Justin knew a knife had been in the wall by the TV, he saw it. But the crime scene was different by the time LE saw it.
- Jamie tries to distance himself from the bent steak knife. Don't ask me why TF he would pull it out the wall, but I believe it's a possibility. Just as I believe it's a very good possibility Jamie placed the blanket on Sue.
- There's some physical evidence that proves Jamie went inside the cabin. What it is we don't know, but it exists. So what is this evidence?
- Justin's description for the composite sketches was BS. All he did was agree with and say "uh huh" to the questions Embrey asked him.
- Everything he knew can be traced back to that morning. Everything else is made up because he was their star witness and knew things he shouldn't have. A 12 year old boy who couldn't tell them the truth, that he went beyond the fenceline.
- Greg's interview, read with the possibility of him having seen what he told that morning.
- Rick. In the cabin walkthrough video, he says he thought he went into the living room that morning but Sheila told him he didn't. He says he woke up to a knock on the window,it scared him and he took off for the bedroom door into the living room. Sheila says he didn't go out the bedroom, Jamie knocked and they were removed from the window. But what if he did go in the living room as he remembers? After he was removed from the window? When Zonita was at 25. Jamie, Alyssa and Sheila were at the back of the house and the younger kids unaccounted for. Outside the house, but unsupervised.
- LE didnt know what to make of Justin. In reports from September 1981, they were still questioning him and asking about the men in his "dream".
- The lie detectorist, Lister, told the DOJ its likely Justin didn't see anything and was making it up. We don't know exactly what he had to say because that report is being withheld as well.
- Along with Justin's lie detector results. This is what was posted about that report:
What was misrepresented? We know in keddie28's mind "lies" and "misrepresentations" are anything that doesn't align with his opinion,and he mistakenly believes his opinions are facts. If he was so confident in his claims then he wouldn't hide shit. As long as that continues to occur all we have is opinions.
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Post by kmik on Nov 30, 2023 3:19:22 GMT
I agree and want to know the truth. I believe any/all could have gone in - but did they cover Sue?? If so their failure to say they did after all these years is a problem.
Were gonna do the same and line up Seabolt/Sheila’s interviews.
on a side note yes Seabolt had alot of wood in his yard and was supposedly still cutting - but it does get cold there and he possibly sold some on the side also? Maybe he was even cutting up a tree for Mrs.Ottis
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