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Post by snoho17 on Oct 10, 2021 0:48:36 GMT
  Pictured top is the bent steak knife found near Johnny, bottom is the butcher knife and hammer laid out on a table near the kitchen. You can see an open flute case and jacket as well. |
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Post by mew1987 on Feb 4, 2022 6:15:06 GMT
Everyone says the steak knife was bent while stabbing Johnny (not sure if this was something DMac started or whether evidence fits this theory)
I was thinking maybe it was used on the walls and got stuck causing it to be bent
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Post by Hope on Feb 11, 2022 6:06:45 GMT
Good topic to bring up Mew! I agree with you, the wall is the most likely cause & it's substantiated by the knife marks in the paneling. This deserves more discussion and corroborating information/evidence. Until then, here's a couple quick thoughts. According to the prevailing theory, one, possibly two of the little boys were forced to participate. Made to "get dirty" in order to keep their silence. Several of the small knife wounds on Sue & Johnny were hesitation wounds, made post mortem by the boy(s). Justin, not knowing what he was doing, bent the knife when he stabbed Johnny's sternum. He then tossed the knife to the where it was found on the floor. - If the knife became bent that way, it's very likely Justin would have injured himself. Sliced the palm of his hand as it slid down the blade. He didn't know what he was doing so he wouldn't have expected the knife to suddenly stop.
- If one or both of these boys had been handling this knife, why wasn't their DNA found on it when it was tested in 2004?
- Even with the cheapest of knives it would take a lot of force to make it bend. Would a 12 year old have that strength? I'd bet the knife would just simply stop (and he'd slice his hand open;) There are other brutal murders where the victim is stabbed an unimaginable amount of times, all over their body including the chest and/or head. The knives used in those cases didn't just bend like Justin supposedly managed to do with this one. If anything you hear of a knife breaking off during an attack.
- Why wouldn't the people forcing him to do this also direct him where to inflict the wounds? He didn't know what he was doing but they did. How are they going to explain Justin having a knife wound if he ended up injuring himself? If your forcing little kids to join in on your murder it seems likely you would be in complete control of the situation.
- And what, they didn't think the half a dozen "hesitation wounds" the kid(s) already made were enough to traumatize them & keep them quiet? There was really no need to take it any further than that. The purpose was accomplished, hesitation or not, that would F a kid up for life. It makes me mad/sad to even think about.
I don't believe the forced participation claim. In addition to the above, the living room of the cabin was small, yet we're to believe 3+ murders, 1, 2, or 3 young boys, plus the 3-4 victims are all in this living room? The boys being forced to do things and throughout all this everyone managed to watch were they stood/walked, managed to avoid the areas with blood on the floor? And to be honest, I don't think it's right this claim is being made by Dmac. There's nothing to substantiate it, Justin's DNA being on a piece of tape on the floor doesn't prove they were using a knife. Their DNA wasn't found on the knife. Analyze it again today with the higher sensitivity testing available, but until then, it's an awful thing for someone to claim as fact without proof.
Anyway, Mew's thought of the knife becoming bent while it was being removed from wall sounds a lot more logical to me. The movements one would make when attempting to remove a knife stuck in a wall, left and right, the knife bending as the continues to be embedded. Bottom line, that & the other weapons recovered from inside the cabin deserve some updated, advanced testing. The wall panels as well.
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Post by snoho17 on Feb 12, 2022 8:24:26 GMT
Good train of thought! In following the train, I think there was some of Johns blood on the steak knife? But bodies get slippery, internal bones are slippery. I believe John had a knick on one of his vertebrae. But in stabbing someone, if they were to hit bone, I think a cheap steak knife would warp and bend . This one folded up like a "switch blade". Justin saw a knife sticking in the wall, an officer removed another piece of wall paneling, He noted the withdrawals and their was one weird one, that coincided with what justin said. I think the knife hitting the wall is pretty spot on!
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camfaults
Full Member
Historian, researcher, writer; major focus on cold cases of California
Posts: 151
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Post by camfaults on Feb 28, 2022 9:00:36 GMT
If this were a planned murder, the killers would have come prepared. If Marty and Bo had committed this murder, wouldn't they have brought better weapons? I have a hard time believing that Marty took his carpenter's hammer instead of his hatchet as a murder weapon. Why didn't Marty take the hatchet for his partner Bo? What was Bo planning on using as a weapon? I have a hard time believing anyone intending on murdering three people went into the cabin unarmed. Let's say Marty and Bo did enter the cabin unarmed, did they come in the back door and open the kitchen drawers until they found the knives, or did they come in the front door, bind victims, then retrieve the weapons from the kitchen? Whoever did this probably had retrieved the knives before the went into the bedroom and cut the electric cords used as binding.
I also had the thought that the knife could have been wielded to plunge into an intended victim laying on the floor, but the victim moved and the assailant plunged the knife into the flooring. I addressed this on another thread, and asked if anyone knew if knife marks were found on the wood flooring under the carpet?
Good ideas fellow sleuths!
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brick
New Member
Posts: 16
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Post by brick on Feb 28, 2022 10:06:00 GMT
wait wait wait so was it planned or not? I know rolls of tape and a hammer and rifle were there and then gone. So why say these murders weren't planned?
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Post by Hope on Feb 28, 2022 15:35:20 GMT
If this were a planned murder, the killers would have come prepared. If Marty and Bo had committed this murder, wouldn't they have brought better weapons? I have a hard time believing that Marty took his carpenter's hammer instead of his hatchet as a murder weapon. Why didn't Marty take the hatchet for his partner Bo? What was Bo planning on using as a weapon? I have a hard time believing anyone intending on murdering three people went into the cabin unarmed. Let's say Marty and Bo did enter the cabin unarmed, did they come in the back door and open the kitchen drawers until they found the knives, or did they come in the front door, bind victims, then retrieve the weapons from the kitchen? Whoever did this probably had retrieved the knives before the went into the bedroom and cut the electric cords used as binding. Cam summed it up well in his post. If this murder was preplanned, the perpetrators would have came better prepared. Why would two grown men planning to murder someone arm themselves with rolls of medical tape and a pellet gun? The evidence & crime scene suggest the murders were not planned, rather something happened inside that cabin that escalated to murder. The knives, hammer and electrical cords all came from within 28. Those weapons were determined to have been used in the murders. The medical tape and the pellet gun may have also come from inside 28. Law enforcement were trying to determine whether those items were brought by the killers or were already in the residence, but like most everything else with this case, they received conflicting statements. Sheila told LE she didn't know if her mom kept medical tape inside the cabin. "I don't know" is different than saying "no, we did not have medical tape at home". And it's no secret Sheila answered most every question with "I'm not sure" or "I don't know". On the other hand, during his interview, Ricky told LE they did keep medical tape in the bathroom. So, Sheila said she wasn't sure and Rick said they did have tape in the cabin. He may have said they didn't have a lot of it when asked, but what equates "a lot" to a child? A couple of rolls of tape may not be a lot in his mind. I bet after they spoke with him, LE went and checked the bathroom closet and medicine cabinet to see if the tape he mentioned was still there. If files weren't missing, maybe we'd know the answer to that. One thing is for sure, the empty tape rolls and pellet gun were removed by the killers, but that's all we can say for sure. Sheila & Rick may have told LE Johnny didn't have a pellet gun, however, their Aunt Jackie said differently: Law enforcement purposely never mentioned or released info about the pellet gun to the public/press because that was a hold back of theirs. If anyone knew about the pellet gun, it was because they had inside knowledge of the murders. |
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brick
New Member
Posts: 16
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Post by brick on Feb 28, 2022 20:23:51 GMT
No, that's not true. The crime scene reads like a planned murder gone wrong. You cannot ignore the fact they brought weapons and badly staged the scene to make it look unplanned. And cops did NOT use the pellet gun as a "hold". That's silly! They lied about weapons being brought to the crime. They lied about so many things, and that's not "holding" that's lying.
These cops are corrupt, and anyone who overlooks that is doing it intentionally. And can't be trusted.
What's been written about Sheila's involvement and plans gone wrong makes sense. All of those lies about being with all the Sharps all day Saturday make sense the way it's spelled out. The killers wanted to make sure everyone knew that they knew John and Dana would be home that night. But the lies are so bad that it's clear they did not expect so many people at 28 that night. None of this stuff I've read here and elsewhere about it being unplanned can be taken seriously. You can't bury the facts of the case and expect anyone to believe anything else you say. Me in particular.
These murders were planned and executed. These murders were poorly planned by idiots and poorly executed by idiots. Sheila's a murderer, so are the Meeks.
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Post by snoho17 on Feb 28, 2022 23:33:59 GMT
I won't say one way or the other, but I'd like to see evidence of the weapons being brought. That Sheila initially asked someone else to spend the night gives me pause. That adults would rely from the beginning on multiple young children's discretion is also troubling. You know the old saying, "Three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead." -Ben Franklin
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Pictured top is the bent steak knife found near Johnny, bottom is the butcher knife and hammer laid out on a table near the kitchen. You can see an open flute case and jacket as well.
