Post by Hope on Oct 10, 2021 6:14:51 GMT
Transcription of Justin's hypnosis session with Sheriff Doug Thomas. The entire report was 22 pages long, however, page 21 was missing when the original documents were uploaded by Josh. It'd be nice to know what page 21 contained and if there was a reason it was left out.
Doug: What we are going to do is, we are going to watch Justin's life on the TV set. Just like you are watching it on a TV set. You are going to see everything that Justin did and you are going to see everything that everyone else does. Everything that happens around Justin. You are going to tell me what's going on. And now you sitting down in a big easy chair. There is a TV in front of you. I'm going to walk over and I'm going to turn that TV on. When I do you are going to be back on Saturday, at noon Saturday. And you are going to tell me what you see on that TV. What Justin is doing at noon on Saturday. Here we go. Turn on the TV. I'm turning
it on. The TV is coming on, and there's Justin. See Justin? Who are you with?
Justin: Ricky.
Doug: You are with Ricky. Where are you at?
Justin: In back of my house.
Doug: You are in back of who's house?
Justin: Ricky's.
Doug: Ricky's house. What are you doing?
Justin: Riding a bike.
Doug: Riding bikes. What else are you doing?
Justin: Talking.
Doug: Talking. Who else is around?
Justin: No one.
Doug: No one. Ok. How long do you ride your bicycles.
Justin: I ride it all day.
Doug: All day. What time do you quit riding your bike?
Justin: Six.
Doug: Six. Is there anyone else around the house today?
Justin: Tina.
Doug: Tina is there. What is she doing?
Justin: Playing.
Doug: What's she playing?
Justin: Dolls.
Doug: She's playing dolls. Where is she playing dolls at?
Justin: At the Seabolt's
Doug: At the Seabolt's. Ok. Who else is there at Ricky's house?
Justin: Sheila.
Doug: Anyone else?
Justin: Their mom.
Doug: Their mom. What is Sheila doing?
Justin: She's working.
Doug: What kind of work is she doing?
Justin: Lawn.
Doug: She's doing the lawn? What she doing to the lawn?
Justin: Raking.
Doug: She's raking. Is anyone helping her?
Justin: Her mom.
Doug: Her mom.
Justin: And Johnny.
Doug: And Johnny. Anyone else?
Justin: And Dana.
Doug: And Dana. They are all cleaning up the lawn?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: In front of the house or in back of the house?
Justin: Uh huh.
Doug: I want you now to just look at Dana. What's he dressed in? What kind of clothing does he have on? What color?
Justin: Jeans.
Doug: Ok.
Justin: White shirt.
Doug: What kind of white shirt?
Justin: T-shirt.
Doug: T-shirt. Ok. What's Johnny dressed in?
Justin: Red shorts.
Doug: Red shorts. What kind of a shirt? Look at it real close, you can see it. What's he wearing above his red shorts?
Justin: Grayish white shirt.
Doug: A grayish white shirt. Ok. Is it a long sleeve or short sleeve?
Justin: Short sleeve.
Doug: Short sleeve. Do either of the boys have a headband on?
Justin: Johnny.
Doug: Johnny has a headband. What does it look like?
Justin: Red.
Doug: It's red.
Justin: And white with black.
Doug: Red and white and black. Are they lines or just prints or dots or...what does it look like?
Justin: Snowflakes.
Doug: Looks like snowflakes. Ok. Very good, How wide is it around his head?
Justin: Huge.
Doug: Ok. Does it hang down on any side?
Justin: Back.
Doug: It hangs down in the back. Ok. What's Tina wearing? Uh...er ..... yeah, what is Tina wearing? Let's go back...
Justin: Blue shirt and blue pants.
Doug: What kind of shoes does Tina have on?
Justin: Tennis shoes.
Doug: Tennis shoes. Ok. What is Sheila wearing? There's Sheila. Just look at her for a little bit and you'll see her come into focus. See what Sheila is wearing?
Justin: Jeans.
Doug: Jeans. Ok. What kind of top is she wearing?
Justin: Red, white.
Doug: A red and white top?
Justin: And blue.
Doug: A red, white and blue top. Ok. What's their mother wearing?
Justin: A long sleeve blue shirt.
Doug; Ok. What kind of pants?
Justin: Brown.
Doug: Brown pants? Ok. You are doing very good, very good Justin. Ok, you are all cleaning up the yard, is there anyone else around the house?
Justin: No.
Doug: . No one else around the house. Ok, now what happens next, when you get done cleaning the yard? Or when they get done?
Justin: Johnny gets on...
Doug: Johnny get on what?
Justin: Purple jogging suit.
Doug: Ok, gets on a purple jogging suit.
Justin: With three white stripes.
Doug: Ok.
Justin: Hitchhikes into town.
Doug: Ok, does he still have his head.
Justin: With Dana.
Doug: With Dana. Ok. Does Johnny still have his headband on?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: Ok. What is Dana wearing?
Justin: The same thing.
Doug: The same thing. Ok. What time was that? What time of the day was that when they start to hitchhike into town?
Justin: 1:30
Doug: About l:30. Ok. What did the rest of the people do? What does the mother do when Johnny and Dana are hitch-hiking?
Justin: Go inside and watch TV.
Doug: Watch TV. Who else is watching TV besides the mother?
Justin: No one.
Doug: No one. Ok. Where's Sheila?
Justin: Outside.
Doug: . What's she doing outside?
Justin: Talking with Lisa.
Doug: Talking with Lisa. What's Tina doing?
Justin: Playing at the Seabolts.
Doug: She is still playing at the Seabolts.
Justin: Inside their house.
Doug: .Inside their house. Ok. What's the next thing that happens?
Justin: Come in and eat dinner.
Doug: Ok.. What did you have for dinner?
Justin: Bean burritos.
Doug: Bean burritos. Did you have anything else?
Justin: No.
Doug: Did you have anything to drink?
Justin: Milk
Doug: Milk. Ok. Who's at the table with you? Did you eat at the table?
Justin: Yes.
Doug: Who's at the table with you?
Justin: Greg.
Doug: Greg.
Justin: Ricky.
Doug: Ricky.
Justin: And me.
Doug: And...and where's their mother?
Justin: In the living room.
Doug: Mother is in the living room. What's she doing in the living room?
Justin; Watching TV.
Doug: TV. What happens next? .... That's alright. Just sit there and relax, feel so at ease.
Justin: Tina comes home.
Doug: What time is that?
Justin: 7:30
Doug: About 7:30. What does Tina do?
Justin: Washes the dishes.
Doug: Ok. Where*s Sheila?
Justin: She's going to stay the night at the Seabolt's house.
Doug: Ok. What time does Sheila leave to go over to the Seabolt's?
Justin: Five.
Doug: About five. Ok. And what does Tina do after she gets done washing the dishes?
Justin: Goes back over to the Seabolt's and watches TV.
Doug: I see. And what do you and Greg and Rick do?
Justin: Greg went to bed
Doug: What time did Greg go to bed?
Justin: Eight o'clock.
Doug: About eight o'clock?
Justin: 8:30.
Doug: Ok. What did you and Rickie do?
Justin: Played cars.
Doug: Played cars. Where did you do that at?
Justin: On the bed, all over the house.
Doug: All over the house. And what did his mother do, while you were playing cars?
Justin: She went and put on her robe.
Doug: She put on her robe. What color is the robe?
Justin: Mostly white. With colored flowers with red and yellow in them.
Doug: Ok. Very good. And what does she do after she puts on the robe?
Justin: Lays down on the couch and watches TV.
Doug: Did she have a blanket or anything? Or a pillow or anything?
Justin: No.
Doug: Ok. She just laid down and watched TV. What did she watch on TV?
Justin: Love Boat.
Doug: Love Boat. And where were you and Ricky?
Justin: We were watching it.
Doug: You were watching it? What was happening on Love Boat?
Justin: Nothing.
Doug: Nothing. Ok. Did you watch all of Love Boat?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: Did you hear the telephone ring all day? Anytime during the day did the telephone ring?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: It rang. About what time?
Justin: One.
Doug: About one in the afternoon?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: Who talked on the telephone?
Justing- I don't know.
Doug: Oh, you were outside, uh?
Justin: I was inside, eating lunch.
Doug: Oh, you were inside, eating lunch, Ok. And you don't remember who talked on the phone.
Justin: No.
Doug: Did they talk very long on the phone?
Justin: No.
Doug: No. Ok. And then what happened?
Justin: we went back outside and played.
Doug: Ok. Did you hear the phone ring any other time?
Justin: No.
Doug: Did anyone else dial out on the phone? Did anyone else make a phone call from inside the house?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: Who made a phone call?
Justin: Sheila.
Doug: Sheila did? What time?
Justin: Around 4:30.
Doug: Around 4:30. Do you know who she called?
Justin: One of her friends, I don't know.
Doug: What did she say to her friend?
Justin: They just talked.
Doug: Did anyone else dial out besides Sheila?
Doug: No. What time did Tina come back home from the Seabolts'?
Justin: 9 or 9:30.
Doug: 9 or 9:30. What did she do when she came in the door? What did she say?
Justin: She said she was going to bed.
Doug: Ok. What did your mother say?
Justin: She didn't say anything.
Doug: Ok. Where did Tina go then.
Justin: Into her bedroom.
Doug: Do you know what her bedroom looks like?
Justin: It has a big queen size bed and a single bed.
Doug: Where does Tina sleep?
Justin: On the queen size bed, with her mom.
Doug: What side of the bed does Tina usually sleep on?
Justin: Right.
Doug: The right. Is that the one next to the wall or the one....
Justin: The right side of the queen size bed.
Doug: That's the one next to the little bed. Did you ever see a big piece of cardboard in there?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: Where's it at?
Justin: On the left side of the queen size bed, against the wall.
Doug: Against the wall. Do you know what that's for?
Justin: No.
Doug: I want you to look at the little bed. Look at the little bed in your mind. What color are the blankets on there?
Justin: White.
Doug: A white blanket. How many blankets are on that little bed? Do you know?
Justin: Two.
Doug: Two blankets. What's the color of the other one?
Justin: Redish white.
Doug: Redish white?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: Ok. So there's two blankets on that little bed. What else do you see in that room?
Justin: Closet.
Doug: Closet. What's in the closet?
Justin: Clothes.
Doug: Clothes and what else?
Justin: Dresser.
Doug: A dresser, ok. Very very good. When Tina went to bed, did she, did you see her after she went to bed?
Justin: No.
Doug: Do you know if she put on jammies or not?
Justin: Huh uh.
Doug: Huh uh. Are you saying huh uh she didn't put on jammies or don't you know?
Justin: I don't know.
Doug: Ok. Did she turn a light out?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: Ok. But you continued to watch TV?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: And what time did you and Ricky go to bed?
Justin: Around ten.
Doug: Around ten. Was it right after Love Boat?
Justin: Yes.
Doug: What did Ricky's mother say when you went to bed?
Justin: Nothing.
Doug: Nothing. What did you and Ricky do when you decided to go to bed?
Justin: We talked for about five minutes.
Doug: Ok. .And where, where were you sleeping?
Justin: In the top bunk.
Doug: In the top bunk, ok. Where was Ricky sleeping?
Justin: On a cot.
Doug: On the cot. Where was Greg sleeping?
Justin: In the bottom bunk.
Doug: Ok. Just talked for about 10 minutes?
Justin: Five.
Doug: Ok, five. Then you went to sleep?
Justin: Uh huh.
Doug: Did you hear the TV going when you went to sleep?
Justin: Yes.
Doug: Ok, what's the next thing you heard?
Justin: I went to sleep.
Doug: You went to sleep. Did you wake up during the night?
Justin: No.
Doug: You didn't wake up during the night?
Justin: No.
Doug: You didn't hear any noises?
Justin: No.
Doug: Any thumping?
Justin: No.
Doug: Did you see anyone in your room?
Justin: Wait, I heard thumping. It went into my dream.
Doug: It went into your dream. Tell me about your dream.
Justin: It was on my cruiser.
Doug: Your cruiser? What's your cruiser?
Justin: It's a passenger boat.
Doug: Oh, you have a passenger cruiser on your dream?
Justin: Uh huh.
Doug: What?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: And what are you dreaming about your cruiser?
Justin: Somebody got thrown out.
Doug: Somebody got thrown off the cruiser?
Justin: Uh huh.
Doug: Is that where the thumping came from?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: Ok, what else happened in your dream?
Justin: There was a fight.
Doug: There was a fight. Who was in the fight?
Justin: I don't, I can't remember. Somebody I've never seen.
Doug: I Somebody you've never seen. What did he look like?
Justin: He had long hair.
Doug: How long was his hair?
Justin: Short.
Doug: Short? When you mean short, did it come over his ears at all?
Justin: A little bit.
Doug: A Just a little bit.
.Justin: Yeah.
Doug: I Was it neat? Or was it all messed up?
Justin: It was neat, was neat, kind of neat.
Doug: Kind of neat. Was it straight or curly?
Justin: Straight.
Doug: I Was there a part in his hair?
Justin: No.
Doug: No. How did he have it combed?
Justin: Combed back.
Doug: Combed back. What did his face look like?
Justin: He had black glasses.
Doug: Black glasses. Ok, when you say black glasses, did they have a circle around them black, or a big thick circle or what? Describe the glasses?
Justin: They had gold ring and a gold frame. And black and brown, the lenses.
Doug:. The lenses were blackish brown?
Justin: Yes.
Doug: Ok. Did he have a beard or a mustache?
Justin: He had a mustache.
Doug: A mustache. And what was he wearing?
Justin: He was wearing a jean jacket.
Doug: A jean jacket made out of blue jeans?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: And what color was it?
Justin: Blue.
Doug: Blue. What kind of pants did he have on?
Justin: Blue jeans.
Doug: Blue jeans. What kind of belt buckle did he have?
Justin: He wasn't wearing a belt.
Doug: No belt? What kind of shirt did he have underneath the jacket?
Justin: I only saw the jacket.
Doug: Ok. Did he have a necklace or anything like that on?
Justin: No. He had a roundish nose.
Doug: He had a roundish nose?
Justin: It wasn't like it was pointed at the end.
Doug: Ok. Was it a big nose or a medium size nose?
Justin: Medium size nose.
Doug: Ok. Medium size nose. What else can you_tell me about him? What kind of shoes did he have on?
Justin: Boots.
Doug: He had boots.
Justin: Cowboy boots.
Doug: Cowboy boots. Ok. And what did they look like?
Justin: They looked black.
Doug: Black cowboy boots?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: Were they real pointed or just ....
Justin: Rounded.
Doug: Rounded toes. In your dream, what did this guy do?
Justin: He had a fight.
Doug: Who did he have a fight with?
Justin: Johnny.
Doug:. He had a fight with John?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: Ok, what kind of a fight did he have with John?
Justin: Punching fight
Doug: A punching fight. Where was Dana?
Justin: He was there.
Doug: What was Dana doing while he had a punching fight?
Justin: He was fighting the other man.
Doug: What other man?
Justin: No. They were fighting the man.
Doug: Both of them were fighting one man?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: Are you sure there wasn't two?
Justin: Dana was almost drunk.
Doug: Dana was almost drunk. OK. and there was only one other man in there?
Justin: Thats what I saw.
Doug: You only saw one man in there.
Justin: There was a crowd that was gathered.
Doug: Oh, there•was a crowd gathered? Uh?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: Where was Tina in the crowd?
Justin: She was....I didn't see her.
Doug: You didn't see Tina? Ok. How were Johnny and that man fighting?
Justin: With their fists they were punching.
Doug: And then what happened?
Justin: Johnny was thrown overboard.
Doug: Johnny got thrown overboard?
Justin: And Dana.
Doug: And Dana. Ok. And then what happened?
Justin: The man ran away.
Doug: He ran away?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: Ok.
Justin: Then I saw a body lying on the bow.
Doug: Ok, You saw a body on the bow? Who was the body?
Justin: Their mom.
Doug: Their mom?O Ok. What did she look like?
Justin: She had black hair and a sheet over her.
Doug: And a sheet over her.
Justin: And I looked under the sheet and she was slit on the chest.
Doug: Ok. And then what happened?
Justin: Everybody started to gather around her.
Doug: I Everybody gathered around her.
Justin: And we started to go to shore.
Doug: Ok. Did you see anything?
Justin: No.
Doug: Never did see Tina?
Justin: No.
Doug: Very good, you are doing very good Justin. Very good. Can you think of else about the man? Try to think about the man again and the fight. Did he have anything in his hands besides his fists?
Justin: He had a knife.
Justin: It was sort of like a pocket knife.
Doug: It was sort of like a pocket knife. A small knife?
Justin: Yes.
Doug: Was he, what was he doing with the knife?
Justin: He was, he cut Sue.
Doug: He cut Sue?
Justin: Rickey's mom.
Doug: Ok. When did he cut Rickey's mom?
Justin: Cut her first. No! Before he went off the boat he cut her.
Doug: Oh, before he ran off the boat he cut her. Ok. That's very good. You are doing good. That's a good dream.
Justin: He also had a hammer in his hand.
Doug: He had a hammer. Ok. Was there anyone with him?
Justin: I couldn't see.
Doug: You couldn't see anyone with him?
Justin: No.
Doug: Ok. Very good.
Justin: There was another man dressed up like him.
Doug: What was the other man dress like?.
Justin: Like him.
Doug: Just like him?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: Where was the other man at?
Justin: He was in a crowd.
Doug: He was in a crowd.
Justin: But when the man dove into the water they killed Sue. That was the last time I saw him.around.
Doug: Ok. You are doing very well Justin. Very good. And that was the last you saw of him. You didn't see him with anything in his hands?
Justin: I suppose he had a pocket knife, in his hand.
Doug: Did you see.any of, anybody with a gun?
Justin: No ...
Doug: You didn't see anybody with a gun then?
Justin: No.
Doug: Then what happened in your dream?
Justin: Then I woke up.
Doug: You woke up?
Justin: Because it was morning.
Doug: It was morning. Ok.
Justin: And Jamie woke me up.
Doug: Ok. Jamie woke you up. And then what happened?
Justin: I jumped out the window.
Doug: Do you remember walking out into the front room?
Justin: No.
Doug: You didn't go into the front room at all?
Justin; No.
Doug: Ok. How old was that man that was having a fight with John? How old was he?
Justin: 32.
Doug: About 32. And How tall was he?
Justin: 5'6"
Doug: Was he real short?
Justin: He was inbetween.
Doug: He was inbetween who? Inbetween Johnny?
Justin: Medium. He was...
Doug: Was he bigger than Johnny?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: Was he bigger than Dana?
Justin: No. He was a little bit smaller.
Doug: He was smaller than Dana. And you never saw that man before?
Justin: No.
Doug: Did you hear a name?
Justin: Huh uh.
Doug:• Did Johnny call him by name?
Justin: No.
Doug: Did Sue, did their mother call him by name?
Justin: No.
Doug: Did Dana call him a name?
Justin: No.
Doug: Did he call them by name?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: He called them by name?
Justin: Um, Sue.
Doug:l He called Sue.
Justin: He didn't call anybody else.
Doug: What did he say to Sue?
Justin: He just said her name.
Doug: That's all he said was Sue?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: ok. Do you know why he was mad?
Justin: No.
Doug: Do you how why he was fighting?
Justin: No.
Doug: Ok. You are doing very very well. Do you remember anyone coming into your bedroom while you were asleep?
Justin:. No.
Doug: Did you hear “Tina get up in the house or go out of the house?
Justin: No.
Doug: No. That's it, just sit there now Justin. Just sit there and relax. Feel so easy, feel so comfortable. You've done very very good. Very good. I want you to just sit there and relax. Feel so comfortable. Feel so at ease. Feel so comfortable. Feel so good. And at a later time I show you some pictures, you'll be able to pick that man right out. You'll be able to know that man. Be able to pick him out of the pictures. But you won't worry about it because you are
going to be so relaxed and so at ease. Feel so comfortable. And if we have to hypnotize you again, you are going to be so much easier to hypnotize again. So at ease, so relaxed. All I'll have to do is sit you down there and touch you on the shoulder and tell you to relax. And you will be able to come right back where you are now. Feeling so at ease. Feeling so relaxed. Feeling so comfortable. You just sit there and enjoy your relaxation.I'll be back to you in a moment. You'll hear me talking, but it won't bother you because you feel so at ease so relaxed, so comfortable. I'll be right back. You are doing very very good.
Just for a little bit, go back to your dream. Remember you told me you saw a second man? And he looked like the first one? Now just look at him again, and you can. I want you to really picture him. I want you to tell me everything you can see about him.
Justin: He had brown hair.
Doug: Brown hair. Was it long or short?
Justin: I don't know. Long.
Doug: Long brown hair. Down to his shoulders or not that long?
Justin: Past his ears.
Doug: Down past his ears. How about his neck? How long was it around his neck?
Justin: Half way.
Doug: About half way down his neck?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: Was it straight or curly?
Justin: It was curly at the end.
Doug: Curly at the end. Ok. Look at him. Does he have any glasses?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: He had glasses? What kind of glasses did he have on?
Justin: The same kind as the other man.
Doug: The same kind of glasses. What did his nose look like?
Justin:. It was flat.
Doug: A flat nose. Did he have a beard or a mustache?
Justin: Yeah. No.
Doug: He didn't have a beard or a mustache. Could you see sideburns?
Justin: No.
Doug: Ok. Anything else that stood out about his face or his head? Did he have any cap or have anything else on?
Justin: No.
Doug: What was he dressed like?
Justin: He had the same kind of clothes as the other man.
Doug: He had a levi jacket. What color of pants did he have on?
Justin: Blue jeans.
Doug: Blue jeans. What kind of shoes did he have on?
Justin: Marked army boots.
Doug: Ok. What color were they?
Justin: Green.
Doug: They were green. Where, what do you mean by army boots? Tell me what army boots look like?
Justin: It was kinda like a hiking boot.
Doug: OK. Like hiking boots. What kind of a sole did they have on them? Do you know?
Justin: Like waffle stompers.
Doug: Like waffle stompers. Ok. How old was this man?
Justin:. He was about 30.
Doug: He was like about 30. Ok. Had you ever seen him before?
Justin: No.
Doug: No. Did he call anyone by name?
Justin: No.
OTHER SIDE OF TAPE
Justin: ....Johnny.
PAGE 21 OF TRANSCRIPT MISSING
Doug: You didn't hear a car.
Justin: Just some thumpings.
Doug: Just thumping. Ok. Did you hear anyone yelling?
Justin: No.
Doug: No. Ok. Justin, you've done very very well. Just sit there and relax. Feel comfortable. Feel so good, feel comfortable, feel so relaxed, feel so at ease. You are doing very very well. Very good. Feel so relaxed, so comfortable. If we have to hypnotize you again it will be so easy because now you know how it feels, to be so relaxed. And you know how it feels to be so relaxed and at ease and comfortable. The next time is going to be a lot easier. All I'll have to do is touch you on the shoulder and say relax Justin. Just for me, you'll be able to do that. No one else, just for me. And when I wake you up, you are going to feel good all over. You
will feel so relaxed. So comfortable. Your head is going I to be all clear. Your stomach is going to feel good. You are going to feel like you just woke up from 8 hours of sleep. Feel like you've been asleep all night.
What I'm going to do is I'm going to count from 5 to 0. When I get to about 3, you'll.feel your eyes start to flutter. And when I get to 0 you'll be able to open your eyes. You'll feel so relaxed. So good all over. Just like you just got 8 hours of sleep. Your head will be all clear. Ok, as we go from 5 to 4, from 4 to 3. You will feel your eyes start to flutter. From 3 to 2. You
will wake up feeling so good all over. Your head is going to be all clear. You are not going to be sick in your stomach. You are going to feel like you just woke up from 8 hours of sleep. We go from 3 to 2, from 2 to l. And from l to zero.
You did very very well Justin. Very very well.
Doug: What we are going to do is, we are going to watch Justin's life on the TV set. Just like you are watching it on a TV set. You are going to see everything that Justin did and you are going to see everything that everyone else does. Everything that happens around Justin. You are going to tell me what's going on. And now you sitting down in a big easy chair. There is a TV in front of you. I'm going to walk over and I'm going to turn that TV on. When I do you are going to be back on Saturday, at noon Saturday. And you are going to tell me what you see on that TV. What Justin is doing at noon on Saturday. Here we go. Turn on the TV. I'm turning
it on. The TV is coming on, and there's Justin. See Justin? Who are you with?
Justin: Ricky.
Doug: You are with Ricky. Where are you at?
Justin: In back of my house.
Doug: You are in back of who's house?
Justin: Ricky's.
Doug: Ricky's house. What are you doing?
Justin: Riding a bike.
Doug: Riding bikes. What else are you doing?
Justin: Talking.
Doug: Talking. Who else is around?
Justin: No one.
Doug: No one. Ok. How long do you ride your bicycles.
Justin: I ride it all day.
Doug: All day. What time do you quit riding your bike?
Justin: Six.
Doug: Six. Is there anyone else around the house today?
Justin: Tina.
Doug: Tina is there. What is she doing?
Justin: Playing.
Doug: What's she playing?
Justin: Dolls.
Doug: She's playing dolls. Where is she playing dolls at?
Justin: At the Seabolt's
Doug: At the Seabolt's. Ok. Who else is there at Ricky's house?
Justin: Sheila.
Doug: Anyone else?
Justin: Their mom.
Doug: Their mom. What is Sheila doing?
Justin: She's working.
Doug: What kind of work is she doing?
Justin: Lawn.
Doug: She's doing the lawn? What she doing to the lawn?
Justin: Raking.
Doug: She's raking. Is anyone helping her?
Justin: Her mom.
Doug: Her mom.
Justin: And Johnny.
Doug: And Johnny. Anyone else?
Justin: And Dana.
Doug: And Dana. They are all cleaning up the lawn?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: In front of the house or in back of the house?
Justin: Uh huh.
Doug: I want you now to just look at Dana. What's he dressed in? What kind of clothing does he have on? What color?
Justin: Jeans.
Doug: Ok.
Justin: White shirt.
Doug: What kind of white shirt?
Justin: T-shirt.
Doug: T-shirt. Ok. What's Johnny dressed in?
Justin: Red shorts.
Doug: Red shorts. What kind of a shirt? Look at it real close, you can see it. What's he wearing above his red shorts?
Justin: Grayish white shirt.
Doug: A grayish white shirt. Ok. Is it a long sleeve or short sleeve?
Justin: Short sleeve.
Doug: Short sleeve. Do either of the boys have a headband on?
Justin: Johnny.
Doug: Johnny has a headband. What does it look like?
Justin: Red.
Doug: It's red.
Justin: And white with black.
Doug: Red and white and black. Are they lines or just prints or dots or...what does it look like?
Justin: Snowflakes.
Doug: Looks like snowflakes. Ok. Very good, How wide is it around his head?
Justin: Huge.
Doug: Ok. Does it hang down on any side?
Justin: Back.
Doug: It hangs down in the back. Ok. What's Tina wearing? Uh...er ..... yeah, what is Tina wearing? Let's go back...
Justin: Blue shirt and blue pants.
Doug: What kind of shoes does Tina have on?
Justin: Tennis shoes.
Doug: Tennis shoes. Ok. What is Sheila wearing? There's Sheila. Just look at her for a little bit and you'll see her come into focus. See what Sheila is wearing?
Justin: Jeans.
Doug: Jeans. Ok. What kind of top is she wearing?
Justin: Red, white.
Doug: A red and white top?
Justin: And blue.
Doug: A red, white and blue top. Ok. What's their mother wearing?
Justin: A long sleeve blue shirt.
Doug; Ok. What kind of pants?
Justin: Brown.
Doug: Brown pants? Ok. You are doing very good, very good Justin. Ok, you are all cleaning up the yard, is there anyone else around the house?
Justin: No.
Doug: . No one else around the house. Ok, now what happens next, when you get done cleaning the yard? Or when they get done?
Justin: Johnny gets on...
Doug: Johnny get on what?
Justin: Purple jogging suit.
Doug: Ok, gets on a purple jogging suit.
Justin: With three white stripes.
Doug: Ok.
Justin: Hitchhikes into town.
Doug: Ok, does he still have his head.
Justin: With Dana.
Doug: With Dana. Ok. Does Johnny still have his headband on?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: Ok. What is Dana wearing?
Justin: The same thing.
Doug: The same thing. Ok. What time was that? What time of the day was that when they start to hitchhike into town?
Justin: 1:30
Doug: About l:30. Ok. What did the rest of the people do? What does the mother do when Johnny and Dana are hitch-hiking?
Justin: Go inside and watch TV.
Doug: Watch TV. Who else is watching TV besides the mother?
Justin: No one.
Doug: No one. Ok. Where's Sheila?
Justin: Outside.
Doug: . What's she doing outside?
Justin: Talking with Lisa.
Doug: Talking with Lisa. What's Tina doing?
Justin: Playing at the Seabolts.
Doug: She is still playing at the Seabolts.
Justin: Inside their house.
Doug: .Inside their house. Ok. What's the next thing that happens?
Justin: Come in and eat dinner.
Doug: Ok.. What did you have for dinner?
Justin: Bean burritos.
Doug: Bean burritos. Did you have anything else?
Justin: No.
Doug: Did you have anything to drink?
Justin: Milk
Doug: Milk. Ok. Who's at the table with you? Did you eat at the table?
Justin: Yes.
Doug: Who's at the table with you?
Justin: Greg.
Doug: Greg.
Justin: Ricky.
Doug: Ricky.
Justin: And me.
Doug: And...and where's their mother?
Justin: In the living room.
Doug: Mother is in the living room. What's she doing in the living room?
Justin; Watching TV.
Doug: TV. What happens next? .... That's alright. Just sit there and relax, feel so at ease.
Justin: Tina comes home.
Doug: What time is that?
Justin: 7:30
Doug: About 7:30. What does Tina do?
Justin: Washes the dishes.
Doug: Ok. Where*s Sheila?
Justin: She's going to stay the night at the Seabolt's house.
Doug: Ok. What time does Sheila leave to go over to the Seabolt's?
Justin: Five.
Doug: About five. Ok. And what does Tina do after she gets done washing the dishes?
Justin: Goes back over to the Seabolt's and watches TV.
Doug: I see. And what do you and Greg and Rick do?
Justin: Greg went to bed
Doug: What time did Greg go to bed?
Justin: Eight o'clock.
Doug: About eight o'clock?
Justin: 8:30.
Doug: Ok. What did you and Rickie do?
Justin: Played cars.
Doug: Played cars. Where did you do that at?
Justin: On the bed, all over the house.
Doug: All over the house. And what did his mother do, while you were playing cars?
Justin: She went and put on her robe.
Doug: She put on her robe. What color is the robe?
Justin: Mostly white. With colored flowers with red and yellow in them.
Doug: Ok. Very good. And what does she do after she puts on the robe?
Justin: Lays down on the couch and watches TV.
Doug: Did she have a blanket or anything? Or a pillow or anything?
Justin: No.
Doug: Ok. She just laid down and watched TV. What did she watch on TV?
Justin: Love Boat.
Doug: Love Boat. And where were you and Ricky?
Justin: We were watching it.
Doug: You were watching it? What was happening on Love Boat?
Justin: Nothing.
Doug: Nothing. Ok. Did you watch all of Love Boat?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: Did you hear the telephone ring all day? Anytime during the day did the telephone ring?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: It rang. About what time?
Justin: One.
Doug: About one in the afternoon?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: Who talked on the telephone?
Justing- I don't know.
Doug: Oh, you were outside, uh?
Justin: I was inside, eating lunch.
Doug: Oh, you were inside, eating lunch, Ok. And you don't remember who talked on the phone.
Justin: No.
Doug: Did they talk very long on the phone?
Justin: No.
Doug: No. Ok. And then what happened?
Justin: we went back outside and played.
Doug: Ok. Did you hear the phone ring any other time?
Justin: No.
Doug: Did anyone else dial out on the phone? Did anyone else make a phone call from inside the house?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: Who made a phone call?
Justin: Sheila.
Doug: Sheila did? What time?
Justin: Around 4:30.
Doug: Around 4:30. Do you know who she called?
Justin: One of her friends, I don't know.
Doug: What did she say to her friend?
Justin: They just talked.
Doug: Did anyone else dial out besides Sheila?
Doug: No. What time did Tina come back home from the Seabolts'?
Justin: 9 or 9:30.
Doug: 9 or 9:30. What did she do when she came in the door? What did she say?
Justin: She said she was going to bed.
Doug: Ok. What did your mother say?
Justin: She didn't say anything.
Doug: Ok. Where did Tina go then.
Justin: Into her bedroom.
Doug: Do you know what her bedroom looks like?
Justin: It has a big queen size bed and a single bed.
Doug: Where does Tina sleep?
Justin: On the queen size bed, with her mom.
Doug: What side of the bed does Tina usually sleep on?
Justin: Right.
Doug: The right. Is that the one next to the wall or the one....
Justin: The right side of the queen size bed.
Doug: That's the one next to the little bed. Did you ever see a big piece of cardboard in there?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: Where's it at?
Justin: On the left side of the queen size bed, against the wall.
Doug: Against the wall. Do you know what that's for?
Justin: No.
Doug: I want you to look at the little bed. Look at the little bed in your mind. What color are the blankets on there?
Justin: White.
Doug: A white blanket. How many blankets are on that little bed? Do you know?
Justin: Two.
Doug: Two blankets. What's the color of the other one?
Justin: Redish white.
Doug: Redish white?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: Ok. So there's two blankets on that little bed. What else do you see in that room?
Justin: Closet.
Doug: Closet. What's in the closet?
Justin: Clothes.
Doug: Clothes and what else?
Justin: Dresser.
Doug: A dresser, ok. Very very good. When Tina went to bed, did she, did you see her after she went to bed?
Justin: No.
Doug: Do you know if she put on jammies or not?
Justin: Huh uh.
Doug: Huh uh. Are you saying huh uh she didn't put on jammies or don't you know?
Justin: I don't know.
Doug: Ok. Did she turn a light out?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: Ok. But you continued to watch TV?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: And what time did you and Ricky go to bed?
Justin: Around ten.
Doug: Around ten. Was it right after Love Boat?
Justin: Yes.
Doug: What did Ricky's mother say when you went to bed?
Justin: Nothing.
Doug: Nothing. What did you and Ricky do when you decided to go to bed?
Justin: We talked for about five minutes.
Doug: Ok. .And where, where were you sleeping?
Justin: In the top bunk.
Doug: In the top bunk, ok. Where was Ricky sleeping?
Justin: On a cot.
Doug: On the cot. Where was Greg sleeping?
Justin: In the bottom bunk.
Doug: Ok. Just talked for about 10 minutes?
Justin: Five.
Doug: Ok, five. Then you went to sleep?
Justin: Uh huh.
Doug: Did you hear the TV going when you went to sleep?
Justin: Yes.
Doug: Ok, what's the next thing you heard?
Justin: I went to sleep.
Doug: You went to sleep. Did you wake up during the night?
Justin: No.
Doug: You didn't wake up during the night?
Justin: No.
Doug: You didn't hear any noises?
Justin: No.
Doug: Any thumping?
Justin: No.
Doug: Did you see anyone in your room?
Justin: Wait, I heard thumping. It went into my dream.
Doug: It went into your dream. Tell me about your dream.
Justin: It was on my cruiser.
Doug: Your cruiser? What's your cruiser?
Justin: It's a passenger boat.
Doug: Oh, you have a passenger cruiser on your dream?
Justin: Uh huh.
Doug: What?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: And what are you dreaming about your cruiser?
Justin: Somebody got thrown out.
Doug: Somebody got thrown off the cruiser?
Justin: Uh huh.
Doug: Is that where the thumping came from?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: Ok, what else happened in your dream?
Justin: There was a fight.
Doug: There was a fight. Who was in the fight?
Justin: I don't, I can't remember. Somebody I've never seen.
Doug: I Somebody you've never seen. What did he look like?
Justin: He had long hair.
Doug: How long was his hair?
Justin: Short.
Doug: Short? When you mean short, did it come over his ears at all?
Justin: A little bit.
Doug: A Just a little bit.
.Justin: Yeah.
Doug: I Was it neat? Or was it all messed up?
Justin: It was neat, was neat, kind of neat.
Doug: Kind of neat. Was it straight or curly?
Justin: Straight.
Doug: I Was there a part in his hair?
Justin: No.
Doug: No. How did he have it combed?
Justin: Combed back.
Doug: Combed back. What did his face look like?
Justin: He had black glasses.
Doug: Black glasses. Ok, when you say black glasses, did they have a circle around them black, or a big thick circle or what? Describe the glasses?
Justin: They had gold ring and a gold frame. And black and brown, the lenses.
Doug:. The lenses were blackish brown?
Justin: Yes.
Doug: Ok. Did he have a beard or a mustache?
Justin: He had a mustache.
Doug: A mustache. And what was he wearing?
Justin: He was wearing a jean jacket.
Doug: A jean jacket made out of blue jeans?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: And what color was it?
Justin: Blue.
Doug: Blue. What kind of pants did he have on?
Justin: Blue jeans.
Doug: Blue jeans. What kind of belt buckle did he have?
Justin: He wasn't wearing a belt.
Doug: No belt? What kind of shirt did he have underneath the jacket?
Justin: I only saw the jacket.
Doug: Ok. Did he have a necklace or anything like that on?
Justin: No. He had a roundish nose.
Doug: He had a roundish nose?
Justin: It wasn't like it was pointed at the end.
Doug: Ok. Was it a big nose or a medium size nose?
Justin: Medium size nose.
Doug: Ok. Medium size nose. What else can you_tell me about him? What kind of shoes did he have on?
Justin: Boots.
Doug: He had boots.
Justin: Cowboy boots.
Doug: Cowboy boots. Ok. And what did they look like?
Justin: They looked black.
Doug: Black cowboy boots?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: Were they real pointed or just ....
Justin: Rounded.
Doug: Rounded toes. In your dream, what did this guy do?
Justin: He had a fight.
Doug: Who did he have a fight with?
Justin: Johnny.
Doug:. He had a fight with John?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: Ok, what kind of a fight did he have with John?
Justin: Punching fight
Doug: A punching fight. Where was Dana?
Justin: He was there.
Doug: What was Dana doing while he had a punching fight?
Justin: He was fighting the other man.
Doug: What other man?
Justin: No. They were fighting the man.
Doug: Both of them were fighting one man?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: Are you sure there wasn't two?
Justin: Dana was almost drunk.
Doug: Dana was almost drunk. OK. and there was only one other man in there?
Justin: Thats what I saw.
Doug: You only saw one man in there.
Justin: There was a crowd that was gathered.
Doug: Oh, there•was a crowd gathered? Uh?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: Where was Tina in the crowd?
Justin: She was....I didn't see her.
Doug: You didn't see Tina? Ok. How were Johnny and that man fighting?
Justin: With their fists they were punching.
Doug: And then what happened?
Justin: Johnny was thrown overboard.
Doug: Johnny got thrown overboard?
Justin: And Dana.
Doug: And Dana. Ok. And then what happened?
Justin: The man ran away.
Doug: He ran away?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: Ok.
Justin: Then I saw a body lying on the bow.
Doug: Ok, You saw a body on the bow? Who was the body?
Justin: Their mom.
Doug: Their mom?O Ok. What did she look like?
Justin: She had black hair and a sheet over her.
Doug: And a sheet over her.
Justin: And I looked under the sheet and she was slit on the chest.
Doug: Ok. And then what happened?
Justin: Everybody started to gather around her.
Doug: I Everybody gathered around her.
Justin: And we started to go to shore.
Doug: Ok. Did you see anything?
Justin: No.
Doug: Never did see Tina?
Justin: No.
Doug: Very good, you are doing very good Justin. Very good. Can you think of else about the man? Try to think about the man again and the fight. Did he have anything in his hands besides his fists?
Justin: He had a knife.
Justin: It was sort of like a pocket knife.
Doug: It was sort of like a pocket knife. A small knife?
Justin: Yes.
Doug: Was he, what was he doing with the knife?
Justin: He was, he cut Sue.
Doug: He cut Sue?
Justin: Rickey's mom.
Doug: Ok. When did he cut Rickey's mom?
Justin: Cut her first. No! Before he went off the boat he cut her.
Doug: Oh, before he ran off the boat he cut her. Ok. That's very good. You are doing good. That's a good dream.
Justin: He also had a hammer in his hand.
Doug: He had a hammer. Ok. Was there anyone with him?
Justin: I couldn't see.
Doug: You couldn't see anyone with him?
Justin: No.
Doug: Ok. Very good.
Justin: There was another man dressed up like him.
Doug: What was the other man dress like?.
Justin: Like him.
Doug: Just like him?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: Where was the other man at?
Justin: He was in a crowd.
Doug: He was in a crowd.
Justin: But when the man dove into the water they killed Sue. That was the last time I saw him.around.
Doug: Ok. You are doing very well Justin. Very good. And that was the last you saw of him. You didn't see him with anything in his hands?
Justin: I suppose he had a pocket knife, in his hand.
Doug: Did you see.any of, anybody with a gun?
Justin: No ...
Doug: You didn't see anybody with a gun then?
Justin: No.
Doug: Then what happened in your dream?
Justin: Then I woke up.
Doug: You woke up?
Justin: Because it was morning.
Doug: It was morning. Ok.
Justin: And Jamie woke me up.
Doug: Ok. Jamie woke you up. And then what happened?
Justin: I jumped out the window.
Doug: Do you remember walking out into the front room?
Justin: No.
Doug: You didn't go into the front room at all?
Justin; No.
Doug: Ok. How old was that man that was having a fight with John? How old was he?
Justin: 32.
Doug: About 32. And How tall was he?
Justin: 5'6"
Doug: Was he real short?
Justin: He was inbetween.
Doug: He was inbetween who? Inbetween Johnny?
Justin: Medium. He was...
Doug: Was he bigger than Johnny?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: Was he bigger than Dana?
Justin: No. He was a little bit smaller.
Doug: He was smaller than Dana. And you never saw that man before?
Justin: No.
Doug: Did you hear a name?
Justin: Huh uh.
Doug:• Did Johnny call him by name?
Justin: No.
Doug: Did Sue, did their mother call him by name?
Justin: No.
Doug: Did Dana call him a name?
Justin: No.
Doug: Did he call them by name?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: He called them by name?
Justin: Um, Sue.
Doug:l He called Sue.
Justin: He didn't call anybody else.
Doug: What did he say to Sue?
Justin: He just said her name.
Doug: That's all he said was Sue?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: ok. Do you know why he was mad?
Justin: No.
Doug: Do you how why he was fighting?
Justin: No.
Doug: Ok. You are doing very very well. Do you remember anyone coming into your bedroom while you were asleep?
Justin:. No.
Doug: Did you hear “Tina get up in the house or go out of the house?
Justin: No.
Doug: No. That's it, just sit there now Justin. Just sit there and relax. Feel so easy, feel so comfortable. You've done very very good. Very good. I want you to just sit there and relax. Feel so comfortable. Feel so at ease. Feel so comfortable. Feel so good. And at a later time I show you some pictures, you'll be able to pick that man right out. You'll be able to know that man. Be able to pick him out of the pictures. But you won't worry about it because you are
going to be so relaxed and so at ease. Feel so comfortable. And if we have to hypnotize you again, you are going to be so much easier to hypnotize again. So at ease, so relaxed. All I'll have to do is sit you down there and touch you on the shoulder and tell you to relax. And you will be able to come right back where you are now. Feeling so at ease. Feeling so relaxed. Feeling so comfortable. You just sit there and enjoy your relaxation.I'll be back to you in a moment. You'll hear me talking, but it won't bother you because you feel so at ease so relaxed, so comfortable. I'll be right back. You are doing very very good.
Just for a little bit, go back to your dream. Remember you told me you saw a second man? And he looked like the first one? Now just look at him again, and you can. I want you to really picture him. I want you to tell me everything you can see about him.
Justin: He had brown hair.
Doug: Brown hair. Was it long or short?
Justin: I don't know. Long.
Doug: Long brown hair. Down to his shoulders or not that long?
Justin: Past his ears.
Doug: Down past his ears. How about his neck? How long was it around his neck?
Justin: Half way.
Doug: About half way down his neck?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: Was it straight or curly?
Justin: It was curly at the end.
Doug: Curly at the end. Ok. Look at him. Does he have any glasses?
Justin: Yeah.
Doug: He had glasses? What kind of glasses did he have on?
Justin: The same kind as the other man.
Doug: The same kind of glasses. What did his nose look like?
Justin:. It was flat.
Doug: A flat nose. Did he have a beard or a mustache?
Justin: Yeah. No.
Doug: He didn't have a beard or a mustache. Could you see sideburns?
Justin: No.
Doug: Ok. Anything else that stood out about his face or his head? Did he have any cap or have anything else on?
Justin: No.
Doug: What was he dressed like?
Justin: He had the same kind of clothes as the other man.
Doug: He had a levi jacket. What color of pants did he have on?
Justin: Blue jeans.
Doug: Blue jeans. What kind of shoes did he have on?
Justin: Marked army boots.
Doug: Ok. What color were they?
Justin: Green.
Doug: They were green. Where, what do you mean by army boots? Tell me what army boots look like?
Justin: It was kinda like a hiking boot.
Doug: OK. Like hiking boots. What kind of a sole did they have on them? Do you know?
Justin: Like waffle stompers.
Doug: Like waffle stompers. Ok. How old was this man?
Justin:. He was about 30.
Doug: He was like about 30. Ok. Had you ever seen him before?
Justin: No.
Doug: No. Did he call anyone by name?
Justin: No.
OTHER SIDE OF TAPE
Justin: ....Johnny.
PAGE 21 OF TRANSCRIPT MISSING
Doug: You didn't hear a car.
Justin: Just some thumpings.
Doug: Just thumping. Ok. Did you hear anyone yelling?
Justin: No.
Doug: No. Ok. Justin, you've done very very well. Just sit there and relax. Feel comfortable. Feel so good, feel comfortable, feel so relaxed, feel so at ease. You are doing very very well. Very good. Feel so relaxed, so comfortable. If we have to hypnotize you again it will be so easy because now you know how it feels, to be so relaxed. And you know how it feels to be so relaxed and at ease and comfortable. The next time is going to be a lot easier. All I'll have to do is touch you on the shoulder and say relax Justin. Just for me, you'll be able to do that. No one else, just for me. And when I wake you up, you are going to feel good all over. You
will feel so relaxed. So comfortable. Your head is going I to be all clear. Your stomach is going to feel good. You are going to feel like you just woke up from 8 hours of sleep. Feel like you've been asleep all night.
What I'm going to do is I'm going to count from 5 to 0. When I get to about 3, you'll.feel your eyes start to flutter. And when I get to 0 you'll be able to open your eyes. You'll feel so relaxed. So good all over. Just like you just got 8 hours of sleep. Your head will be all clear. Ok, as we go from 5 to 4, from 4 to 3. You will feel your eyes start to flutter. From 3 to 2. You
will wake up feeling so good all over. Your head is going to be all clear. You are not going to be sick in your stomach. You are going to feel like you just woke up from 8 hours of sleep. We go from 3 to 2, from 2 to l. And from l to zero.
You did very very well Justin. Very very well.
