camfaults
Full Member
Historian, researcher, writer; major focus on cold cases of California
Posts: 151
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Post by camfaults on Feb 2, 2022 0:26:11 GMT
Her own words prove she's a liar, an ass, and a godawful hypocrite. Talk about altering facts to suit your purposes, that's the sole goal of this viper pit of inept twats. Now, go fellate some corrupt cops like the suckers you are. We are entitled to our opinions. If you find us to be wrong, then so be it. Just go find a forum where you can share your comments with like-minded people. Or, are you preferring to troll this forum to project? By some of your comments, you appear to be quite effected by this case. Are you somehow personally involved?
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getem
New Member
Posts: 8
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Post by getem on Feb 2, 2022 1:52:15 GMT
I would say a psychiatrist would have a field day with this guy, but then I think no...they would have him pegged in a second...easy.
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Post by kmik on Feb 3, 2022 2:23:30 GMT
Let's face it they had to have something to draw ID's interest in such a cold case (hence the love letter reappearing, the 911 call, and the hammer in the pond). If I'm not mistaken the ID show was given the go ahead around February/March and first aired November 2016 (the Keddie show was November 27, 2016)- that's several shows they had to produce by November so how much time (by the time they got to Quincy) do you think they spent on the show? I've watched it and I'll say zero - they relied on their interviewees to tell the story. How is it that nobody (newspapers, people magazine) questioned this "evidence", that was supposedly being sent off for testing laying out on a table getting contaminated - in one pic it's laying on top of a manilla envelope with an evidence tag attached to it, then it's laying beside the 3"binder without the tag, it's laying out on the table exposed behind Mike and Sheila in one photo. It's really kinda sad that so many people bought all of this babble - hook, line, and sinker.
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Post by mew1987 on Feb 3, 2022 6:16:04 GMT
Let's face it they had to have something to draw ID's interest in such a cold case (hence the love letter reappearing, the 911 call, and the hammer in the pond). If I'm not mistaken the ID show was given the go ahead around February/March and first aired November 2016 (the Keddie show was November 27, 2016)- that's several shows they had to produce by November so how much time (by the time they got to Quincy) do you think they spent on the show? I've watched it and I'll say zero - they relied on their interviewees to tell the story. How is it that nobody (newspapers, people magazine) questioned this "evidence", that was supposedly being sent off for testing laying out on a table getting contaminated - in one pic it's laying on top of a manilla envelope with an evidence tag attached to it, then it's laying beside the 3"binder without the tag, it's laying out on the table exposed behind Mike and Sheila in one photo. It's really kinda sad that so many people bought all of this babble - hook, line, and sinker. <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button><button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button><button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> Gamber accused the original investigation of being flawed and said “someone straight out of the academy could’ve done a better Job” To me Gamberg comes across very incompetent the only thing he’s done is fuel DMac’s fire but I’ve never taken notice of the hammer being left out risking contamination thanks for pointing that out all it seems Shiela got her hopes up over this for nothing for me this brings me back to my original question what were they testing this for like I said any evidence / DNA on the hammer if it was used in the murders would be long gone given the state of the hammer and given it had men submerged in mud and water for 35 years and to say it matches the hammer that Marty reported missing like I’ve also said a hammer is a hammer
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camfaults
Full Member
Historian, researcher, writer; major focus on cold cases of California
Posts: 151
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Post by camfaults on Feb 3, 2022 6:44:31 GMT
Am I reading this correctly, the date on the evidence tag of the "Keddie pond hammer" is 03/24/16?
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Post by mew1987 on Feb 3, 2022 11:58:00 GMT
Am I reading this correctly, the date on the evidence tag of the "Keddie pond hammer" is 03/24/16? That’s the date the hammer was discovered
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Post by snoho17 on Feb 3, 2022 20:42:46 GMT
Because it's not real evidence, and gambergs not a real investigator
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camfaults
Full Member
Historian, researcher, writer; major focus on cold cases of California
Posts: 151
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Post by camfaults on Feb 3, 2022 23:27:29 GMT
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Post by Hope on Feb 4, 2022 0:51:37 GMT
Sadly, I agree guys. Can't help but feel the victims and their families cannot catch a break.
None of this makes sense and it is not what you see in any other investigation. The evidence should have been tagged immediately & at that point there would be no question of which date to write on the tag. I have not seen one other case where the evidence is just laid out on some table, moved around with different photo ops with people standing around it. Yes, there have been other cases covered on television series where the evidence is shown or examined. However, the evidence is in a lab setting and everyone involved is wearing proper PPE to avoid cross contamination of the evidence. No matter what the explanation is - it had already been tested or had not yet been sent for analysis - that is not how evidence is treated.
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Post by kmik on Feb 4, 2022 13:04:11 GMT
The only newspaper I could find at the moment online with an actual pic of the hammer was an Indian Valley article on the murders dated April 6,2016 - so I doubt this hammer was tested and sent back within two weeks.
Bottom line is it was all for show and they knew all along no DNA or “social security number “ (as Mike joked) was going to be found - but so did we.
The knife, the hammer, the LOVE letter, and the 911 tape have all been used and twisted to fit Marty Smartt being the killer. All of the case files that have been released have been read and gone over and over (no doubt) yet nothing has been released to connect Marty to these murders.
I bet Dee Lake and Tony have lost no sleep over their pics being posted - it would almost be comical if it wasn’t so sick
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Post by snoho17 on Feb 6, 2022 9:05:10 GMT
The penned month correction on the evidence tag of the knife caught my attention when I was zooming in for the discovery dates. Assuming Gamberg wrote out these evidence tags, why didn't he create a new tag for the knife when he errored in writing the month? You can see how the four has been retraced. If the hammer was found before the knife, wouldn't its evidence tag been written then? Gamberg finds the knife 18 days later, writes out the evidence tag, and what, begins to write a 3 for the month of March thinking of when he found the hammer? Why didn't he just toss the incorrect tag and write a new one? And he didn't add his surname on the tag as he did on the hammer tag? Why the inconsistency? <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button><button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> I'd like to come back to this, I'm back on nights, I'll be here all week. The discovery of each weapon comes with 2 diff stories....weird. What's bothersome, is both the knife and the hammer, are shown with the tape recording. The tape recording was at one time, logged into evidence (lost or not) it has a direct connection with 28. We all know the 2 hammer stories, but there are also two stories about the discovery of the buck knife. The picture of the 3 together is now the poster child for the murders, used by magazines, online articles, its sad so little research is done.
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camfaults
Full Member
Historian, researcher, writer; major focus on cold cases of California
Posts: 151
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Post by camfaults on Feb 6, 2022 9:48:43 GMT
The evidence tag of the audio cassette is dated 6/5/1984. Good point about it being logged into evidence. Didn't Gamberg mention in an interview that the inventory list was gone? Whether there is an inventory list or not, the Butte County SO gave it an evidence number. Years ago, when I first read the Plumas News article announcing Gamberg's discovery of the cassette in a box of evidence, I came away with the impression that the item was unlabeled. But Butte County, who received the call, inventoried the item. When they gave it to Plumas County, who they gave it to, and whether it was inventoried as evidence are in question.
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akat
Junior Member
Posts: 50
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Post by akat on May 9, 2023 21:43:53 GMT
The original crime scene photo the hammer is what’s called a curved claw hammer. The curved claw of these hammers hooks under nail heads to maximize leverage when removing nails while minimizing damage to surrounding surfaces. Curved-claw hammers are commonly used to drive and pull nails in finish carpentry, woodworking, and general repair work.
The found hammer from the pond is called a straight claw hammer. Straight-claw hammers deliver more driving and demolition power than curved-claw hammers. Also known as rip hammers, they drive and pull nails, tear out boards, demolish plaster, and more.
A claw hammer head is usually made of forged steel, although titanium heads are available. The face, shaped into a circular anvil about an inch in diameter, is primarily for driving nails. The claws can be straight or curved, flat or pointed. Although designed to pull nails, they also have other uses.
So universally the claw hammer has a one inch diameter face. (The part you hit the nail with) The face on both hammers in this case would be the same. Smooth and 1 inch in diameter. Unless you were a forensic expert in hammer wounds, both hammers having the same sized face, not knowing the weight or length of the hammers, how could anyone make the determination that two hammers were used? More specifically since these two are so similar in type, you wouldn’t be able to determine that just by crime scene/autopsy photos alone.
How is it not a coincidence? What proof is there that it belonged to Marty besides it being found in Keddie pond decades later? Keddie has seen some pretty drastic changes in the time since the murders. Including a bunch of the cabins being demolished and quite frankly, it’s just as easy to believe a worker helping to demolish the cabins lost a hammer. Unless Marty carved his name into it and it’s still visible, no one knows! So it’s all one man’s speculation that the hammer in the pond is 100% Marty’s. It’s also 100% his speculation that a second hammer was used in the crime. There is nothing to indicate there were two hammers used on any of the victims. Marty claiming in 81 his hammer was gone doesn’t prove it was used in this crime either.
Noone can conclusively say there were two hammers used in this crime, unless there is detailed information on each wound. Each wound created from the hammer would have to be carefully studied, impressions of wounds made, the determination of velocity and angle behind each blow would need to be concluded by a forensics expert. The different sized wounds 1/2 in, 3/4 in, and 5/8 in could all be done with one hammer. The brain can be damaged by trauma in two ways. When the head is struck by a hard object the cerebral cortex (gray matter) can become bruised. If the force of the blow is sufficient to cause a whiplash like circumstance then the injury can occur to the nerve cells (axonal injury) deep in the white matter of the brain. Injury of this type involves a variety of forces including the acceleration of the object and the acceleration force imparted to the brain by the object. Injury results from the direct contact between the object and the head and the greatest injury to the head occurs from the initial direct impact with the blunt object, but the velocity of the impact will largely determine the extent and type of damage caused by the resulting blow.
“The cranium, the complex structure of bones that encloses and protects the brain, is composed of three layers; the outer table (hard outer layer of bone), the inner table (inner layer of hard bone), and the diploe or spongy bone layer between the two. When the blunt object comes into contact with the bones of the human skull several reactions are possible. A piece of bone may break loose from the skull and be forced into the cranium with concentric fractures forming around the break area. This bone fragment or plug as it is called often takes on the approximate shape of the object itself. Another reaction is where the object causes an inward bending of the skull resulting in crushing of the outer table and diploe with fractures radiating outwards. In this case the inner table is left untouched by the blow. A blow can also cause a situation where there is both inward and outward bending of the skull structures. In this case, the inner table as well as the outer table and diploe are all shattered. Radiating fractures spread outward from the impact site.” From a resource explaining blunt force trauma.
Claw hammers universally have the same face diameter. (Both cabin and pond hammers are classified as claw) Unless there was a flaw in the edges or actual face of the claw hammer used, (individual characteristics)and had left a specific pattern on the skin on the victims you wouldn’t be able to tell whether one or more was used. The hammers are too similar. You would not be able to determine in 2016 if the pond hammer had been used in this crime unless conclusive dna had been found from the victims on it. You could not compare the wound patterns with found hammer, the corrosion and oxidation from being in the water changed the face shape of the hammer. You can see that in the photos of the found hammer. So anyone that says they know for sure that the pond hammer is 100% a weapon used in this crime without victim dna on it is full of shit. Sorry. The theory of the second hammer is just that speculation and theory. The speculation that it is Marty’s hammer is just that too.
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Post by snoho17 on May 9, 2023 22:18:29 GMT
Good to see you back, great post akat!
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