Severin John "Bo" Boubede

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Testing.







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Crim: This will be an interview with Mr. John S. Boubede, capital B-o-u-b-e-d-e, this the correct address, John?







Boubede: Yes.







Crim: 1050 North Sierra, Reno, Nevada, by Special Agents Harry Bradley and P.A. Crim, Jr., California Department of Justice conducted at the Keddie Resort, banquet room of the main building. Time is approximately 1027 am.







Bradley: O.K. John, back when I met you up at the house here... maybe I'll move that tape over a little bit so it picks up on everbody talking.... uh, we understood that Mr Smartt told you that, uh, eventually we were coming out here,







Boubede: Yes







Bradley: ...that he had called a little earlier?







Boubede: Yes, he had called a short time before...







Bradley: OK. Today?







Boubede: Yes.







Bradley: He said we were coming out to talk to you?







Boubede: Yes.







Bradley: O.K., and the reason why we want to talk to you right now is the fact that we understand that you might be leaving the area.







Boubede: Yes, sometime this evening, as a matter of fact.







Bradley: OK. We're primarily interested in if you saw or heard anything Saturday night. You know what occurred down the street?







Boubede: Yes.







Bradley: At the home over there.







Crim: Where those people were involved in a bad situation.







Bradley: Were you?... You were here Saturday night, right?







Boubede: Yes, sir.







Bradley: O.K., and I understood possibly, this is hearsay, that you may have went out and down to the bar and so forth?







Boubede: Yes, ah, Marilyn, Mrs. Smartt.







Bradley: Is that Marilyn, Mrs. Smartt's first name, is Marilyn?







Boubede: Yes, ah Mrs. Smartt, Mr. Smartt and myself had went down there approximately, oh 9:30 - 10:00 o'clock.







Bradley: 9:30 or 10:00 o'clock. OK. Now, what's Mr. Smartt's first name?







Boubede: Uh, Marty.







Bradley: Marty. We've never met him, so I don't know who... Uh... The three of you went down to the bar?







Boubede: Yes.







Bradley: OK, and I take it you walked over there? There's no...







Boubede: Yes.







Bradley: All right. Was there, when you got to the bar, was there many people in there? Was it a big night type of thing?







Boubede: I would say approximately 7 or 8.







Bradley: OK. Do, did you know any of the other people in the bar?







Boubede: No.







Bradley: Was ah, did they appear to be residents of Keddie or were they?







Boubede: Yes, yes.







Bradley: Most of the people in the bar lived in this area...







Boubede: Ah, I'm saying that ah Martin knew most of them.







Bradley: OK. So he could probably help us out here?







Boubede: Yes, yes.







Bradley: What we're trying to do is find out the people that were around that night, that particular time. Is that tape picking up right there?







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[3:09]







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Bradley: O.K., Marty, you feel Marty probably knows most of the people?







Boubede: Yes, I did. Ah, he introduced me to one or two of them as a matter of fact. We left [pause] shortly before [pause] 1:00 because of a [long pause] change in the music.







Bradley: OK. What kind of music was the change?







Boubede: Uh. It was changed from, uh, Country and Western to, um, rock & roll and Marty had called.







Bradley: I don't blame you for leaving there.







Boubede: Not at all, ah, Marty had called the gentleman who owned the bar as soon as we returned home and, uh, complained about that. And he said that he was sorry and we went back down to have a drink and apologize to him.







Bradley: Who, who was the manager? Who did he call, do you know?







Boubede: [very low voice] Jim, I think. [Then, with no hesitation and much louder:] Bill, I think.







Bradley: Bill? And he's the bar manager?







Boubede: uh, I believe so, yes.







Bradley: Was he the guy tending bar? Or was there a young, kind of blonde...







Boubede: Yes, yes, he was the gentleman tending, uh, tending the bar.







Bradley: I take when they change music, that's just with the machine, they don't have live music?







Boubede: Uh, it's a disco type thing, you know, they play the records.







Bradley: Oh. Oh. So then after you got home you made this call and then came back down again, back to the bar?







Boubede: Uh huh, uh huh, Marilyn had stayed home.







Bradley: OK [pause] Which, what way did you walk when you went back home?







Boubede: Directly down this street here.







Bradley: So you came out down at the bar, that's downstairs here? Around the back?







Boubede: Yes sir.







Bradley: Did you go out through the parking lot, up and down the street here?







Boubede: Yes sir.







Bradley: Hmm... [long pause] Now, when you were... when you came out of the bar, and when you came, how long was it that you were gone, that you came back?







Boubede: You mean how long were we in the bar?







Bradley: No, I should rephrase that. When you guys didn't like the music, you left the bar, went home. Alright now, let's get that... Whenyou came through the parking lot and up the street, did you pass the victims' house?







Boubede: [thinking] Uhhhhhhh, yes.







Bradley: The three of you?







Boubede: Yes.







Bradley: OK... Now did you see any... What was the condition of the house? Were there any lights on in there, do you recall?







Boubede: Ah, I didn't notice.







Bradley: Didn't notice. Did you hear any noise then? From the, from within the house?







Boubede: No.







Bradley: You didn't notice any lights or any noise...







Boubede: No.







Bradley: What about any cars parked out front?







Boubede: [pause] There were several cars parked right here in the immediate area.







Bradley: By here, you mean around the resort area here?







Boubede: Uh, just, uh...directly in back of the resort, like, uh, like, uh, towards the cabin area.







Bradley: Not down by the bar, but this parking lot over here?







Boubede: Right.







Bradley: Mmm-kay.







Crim: Where I just parked my car? In that area?







Boubede: Right.







Bradley: Mmm-kay. So there were several cars parked there?







Boubede: Right. The only one I could tell you was a Corvair.







Bradley: Corvair? What color was it?







Boubede: Either a very dark blue, or black.







Bradley: Have you see that around here before?







Boubede: Ah, well, I've only been here a short time, ah, less than a month.







Crim: So you've had a month you've been here?







Boubede: About a month. So I wouldn't be able to say.







Bradley: Had you ever seen it before? In here?







Boubede: No.







Bradley: No. [Long pause, shuffling of papers] Uh, was there any, was there any traffic, any cars moving, along the road when you and Marilyn, and Mr. Smartt walked home?







Boubede: No.







Bradley: No cars moving, Mmm-kay. [Long pause] After you got home, that's when Mr. Smartt called the bar. Did he do that right away?







Boubede: Immediately.







Bradley: Did you hear what he had to say?







Boubede: Ah he was very unhappy.







Bradley: Again, I can say I don't blame him.







Boubede: [laughing] Hmm! Hmm! Hmm! Hmm! Hmm!







Bradley: I hate that rock and roll. And they always have to play it so dang loud you can hardly hear. I wonder why people go for that stuff. How long after he made the complaint did you guys go back?







Boubede: [Thoughfully] Ohhhh, maybe 10 minutes.







Bradley: Hmmm, ten minutes...







Boubede: I felt as though we should apologize cause the way Marty had talked to him.







Bradley: Oh, what was that?







Boubede: Well, ya know, he was, uh, "darn ya know, you lost 3 good customers, uh, we come in all the time and my goodness you shouldn't do this here and your wife came in and said she's running it and this is not so." So uh, I just thought we should go back and apologize.







Bradley: Sounds like a good idea. Being he's lived here, he has to probably go in there a lot.







Boubede: Uh huh.







Bradley: Look, now, when you went back to the bar, How did you go back?







Boubede: Same thing, went down the road, came to the parking lot, and then went right in back.







Bradley: Basically the same way that you...







Boubede: Same way.







Bradley: ...same way you came outta there. [Long pause] Now that time when you went back, did you see any cars [pause] around that house up there? [after a very long pause waiting for Bo to answer] That you...







Boubede: [Cutting him off] Not that I noticed.







Bradley: Well, were there any lights on in the house or ay sign of a disturbance at all?







Boubede: I wouldn't even know the house, uhhh, unless you pointed it out to me.







Bradley: You don't know the house, which one we're talking about?







Boubede: [immediately] No.







Bradley: Oh, I thought you'd know.







Boubede: No.







Bradley: Oh, well, we'll point it out to you on the way back. It's the second one, you know where the Seabolts live on the corner?







Boubede: No sir.







Bradley: Hmm... [ pause] Uhh







Boubede: [Cutting him off] Like I say, I've only been here about a month. uh, I know very few people here.uh [pause] uh, Relatively few.







Bradley: Yeah. Do you know where Justin spent the night that night?







Boubede: Yes sir, uh, at a friend's, and that's all.







Bradley: Oh, you don't know what house it was?







Boubede: No, no.







Bradley: OK.







Boubede: Uh, [singsong voice] Negative.







Bradley: [Quick and terse] Hang on. [pause] Since Saturday, have you seen a lot of police cars there and?







Boubede: Oh yes, oh yes.







Bradley: Coming in and out of a house?







Boubede: Yes. Roped in. Taped in.







Bradley: This house right up the street?







Boubede: Uh huh.







Bradley: That's the house I'm talking about.







Boubede: Well, I saw them on the street but I didn't know uh [pause] uh in which house [unintelligable]. [10:42]







Bradley: O.K., should have pointed that out to you on the way down. I'll do that on the way up so you know what house I'm talking about to see if you recall any... was there lights on in any of the houses?







Boubede: [after a ten-second pause, very low:] Not that I recall.







Bradley: None?







Crim: Did you hear anybody talking or anybody hollering or anything like that?







Boubede: [after a six-second pause, very low:] No.







Crim: Did you see anybody walking on the street?







Boubede: [very low] No.







Bradley: The only activity then appeared to be down around the bar?







Boubede: Uh, and there wasn't too much there, there wasn't too much there. Uh, there was about 5 or 6 cars parked over in that area, right there, 5 or 6.







Bradley: In the parking lot there at the...?







Boubede: Not at the bar, in that area over by those apartments. [pause] The only thing that caught my attention was the Corvair.







Crim: Yeah, you don't see too many of those around any more.







Boubede: Nah-uh, that's the first thing that caught my mind.







Bradley: Okay, when you went back to the bar then, uh, how many people were in it then?







Boubede: [after a nine second pause, very low:] Possibly 4 or 5.







Bradley: There were less customers there than...







Boubede: Yes, yes.







Bradley: Apparently, they got the message too and didn't like the music.







Boubede: Mm, I can appreciate that.







Bradley: Yeah. Were they men or women, or do you remember that?







Boubede: A-h-h-h-h-h... [seve second pause, very low] About half and half.







Bradley: [pause] Did you talk to the bartender when you got back?







Boubede: Yes, ah, he apologized.







Bradley: Mr. Martin did?







Boubede: For the music and ah







Bradley: You mean the bartender apologized?







Boubede: Mm-hmm. He is also the owner, or the manager.







Crim: What's that name, do you know?







Boubede: I believe Bill.







Bradley: So then I guess everything was hunky dory and you guys just had a couple more drinks, or what?







Boubede: Ah, had one more drink and then we left and went back right home.







Bradley: Mm.







Crim: Here again, you saw or heard nothing unusual?







Boubede: Huh uh.







Crim: Saw nobody on the street, or no cars moving around?







Boubede: Nothing at all.







Bradley: What are you normally drink in there?







Boubede: Ah, Cokes as a rule.







Bradley: Coke.







Boubede: But that time I had a CC and Coke.







Bradley: That last time huh?







Boubede: Yes.







Bradley: There wasn't a female bartender on duty.







Boubede: No, male.







Bradley: Just a male.







Boubede: Ah, Bill, I believe. Ah, female waitress.







Bradley: There was a female waitress.







Boubede: Yes.







Bradley: Do you know her name?







Boubede: No, I don't.







Bradley: Cause they may know these people, we can get ahold of her, she may know some of those people in the bar. She had to...







Boubede: Never more than 8 or 9. At the most.







Crim: In the bar?







Boubede: ...at a time, when we were in there.







Bradley: How long do you think you were there on the second time around?







Boubede: Oh, [7 second pause] 30 minutes tops, because ah, the reason I say that is, um, we were finishing our drink, and he said "no more drinks." Because it was two, I imagine.







Crim: He didn't say time to close or anything like that?







Boubede: No, he said that, uh, "no more drinks."







Bradley: That's for everybody?







Boubede: Yes.







Bradley: So then most people, I expect, got up and left?







Boubede: Yes.







Bradley: Was anybody in the bar after you left or?







Boubede: Mm.







Bradley: I know there's generally people that hang around after the bar closes, shoot the bull and stuff.







Boubede: I really don't know.







Crim: But Martin seemed to know most everybody that was in there?







Boubede: Ah, he knew a few.







Crim: A few, not all of them.







Bradley: You don't know any of them?







Boubede: No.







Bradley: [pause] So we're just thinking around 2:00 that you guys left the bar probably.







Boubede: Yeah.







Bradley: That would be a pretty good guess?







Boubede: Yeah, yeah.







Bradley: How come Marilyn didn't go back with you guys?







Boubede: Well, we went back, uh, because Marty was uh, uh, upset with the bartender, uh, because of the change in music more than anything else.







Bradley: So she just stayed home...?







Boubede: Yeah.







Bradley: After you left here, then this would be the third time you walked back, you walked back home?







Boubede: Mm-hmm.







Bradley: Did you see any activity at that time?







Boubede: Nothing unusual.







Bradley: Nothing unusual. No lights, cars, traffic, anything else.







Boubede: Mmmm. Huh-uh.







Crim: Pertinent, we mean, usually.







Boubede: Huh-uh. Uhhh... [loudly clears throat] This is what was so surprising to me because, uh, I'm a very light sleeper and, uh... um,... if there's an unusual noise... something like that







Bradley: Get right up?







Boubede: Yeah, and ah, I didn't hear anything at all.







Bradley: [9 second pause, someone's finger tapping on table] When you got back to the house, was Marilyn up or in bed or what?







Boubede: No, she was up.







Bradley: She was still up?







Boubede: [in the affirmative] Hmm.







Bradley: [8 second pause] What's your relation to them?







Boubede: [immediate reply] Uh, Marilyn's my niece.







Crim: [5 second pause] Your sister or your brother's daughter, which?







Boubede: My sister's her mother.







Crim: Mm.







Bradley: I never get that straight [laughter], can't figure that out.This thing might go on for some time,you know, we'll be talking...







Boubede: [loudly interrupting] God, I hope not.







Bradley: ...to a lot of people. Well, I hope not, but there's a good chance it will.







Boubede: No, I mean, uh, in regards to this, uh, this thing. Uh... [five second pause] It's so terrible, I don't think there's anything I can tell you. [28:55]







Bradley: I don't either.







Crim: [Agreeing] Mm-hmm.







Bradley: If we had to get a hold of you again, how could we do that?







Boubede: Uh, Very easily. Uh, contact Marilyn. And, uh, she has my, uh, forwarding address. I'm going to, uh, Klamath Falls,uh, Oregon to, uh, work for a, um, police newspaper.







Bradley: What are you going to do there?







Boubede: Uh, sell advertisements.







Bradley: Mmm. Is that your occupation?







Boubede: Well, since I retired, yes.







Crim: You said yesterday you were a retired police officer.







Boubede: Yes.







Crim: From where?







Boubede: Cook County, Illinois.







Crim: Cook County, sheriff's office, huh?







Boubede: Yes, Sheriff's Department.







Bradley: How many years, John?







Boubede: 18, I was retired because of a gunshot wound.







Crim: Medical disability?







Boubede: Yes.







Bradley: Cook County S.O.







Boubede: {Sing-song voice] Yes, indeed!







Bradley: Dang, I wish I could think of the guy's name. When did you leave there?







Boubede: 1958.







Bradley: Oh, well, this guy [18:43] [UNINTELLIGIBLE OVERLAPPING TALKING]







Crim: [Loudly] That kid [Quickly fades into unintelligible mumbling] it's been long after that. [Chuckling, ten seconds of unintelligible near-whispering]







Bradley: That we've talked about?







Crim: He' been long after that [All laugh]







Boubede: Uh, I was there when Sheriff Frank Sain was there.







Crim: So you, hmm, got retired in '58?







Boubede: Wep. Uh, uh, I didn't want to but, um, unfortunately...







Bradley: How long had you been on there? On the department?







Boubede: Ah, I had been on 18 years. Mm-hmm!







Crim: How did... What kind of deal did you, that happen, where you got shot?







Boubede: Uhhh, it was in an armed robbery and uh, I was foolish enough to, uh, [19:18 unintelligable] uh, trying to take a gun.







Bradley: Hmm. Yeah! That ain't too good.







Boubede: Hm-mm, hm-mm. And, uh, That's it. Caught a bullet...







Crim: and Bradley: [in uninson] Is that right?







Boubede: caught me through my hip, uh, and through my groin, uh, up in through here, uh, severed some nerves and, uh,... Shot me up pretty badly, so...







Bradley: Boy, you're lucky! Dang lucky!







Boubede: Not really. Not really, umm... umm, I'm, completely, umm, impotent.







Crim: [in unison with Bradley] Oh, wow.







Bradley: Oh are you really?







Boubede: Yeah..







Bradley: Done the job on you, huh?







Boubede: Uh-huh, tried his damnest. Tried his damnest. Only got 10 years for it.







Bradley: Is that right?







Crim: All he got huh?







Bradley: Made you totally impotent though huh?







Boubede: Uh-huh. [Pause] uh... [pause] uhhh... Nothing! Let's put it that way: NOTHING!







Bradley: Hmm! What about desire?







Boubede: Oh, yes! [laughter] Yes.







Bradley: Lots of desire but you can't.







Boubede: Yes! but that's all, but that's all.







Bradley: That would be a heck of a shape to be in for sure.







Just kinda, if you don't mind... After you left the department did you stay in Chicago or did you get out?







Boubede: No, I left and, uh, went to Indiana and uh, I opened a tractor and trailer firm in Lansing, Illinois, and I stayed with it for approximately [pause] 8 years, [long pause] and 8 years. And then I left there and went to public relations and advertising.







Bradley: Where was that?







Boubede: Uh, in Hammond. Started in Hammond, then I went to Virginia and then I went to, uh, Biloxi, Mississippi.







Bradley: And you didn't do any... Uh... What kind of work is that?







Boubede: It's all advertising with Policemen's papers.







Bradley: Oh, it's been Policemen's papers?







Boubede: Ah, like F.O.P. [Fraternal Order of Policemen] umm, which I belong to, uhhh, P.A.L., which I also belong to...







Bradley: P.A.L. is what?







Boubede: Police Athletic League. Uhhhhmm, uhh, the Childrens Benevolent Assoc.







Crim: Hmm!







Boubede: Uh... Actually, it's a nationwide thing.







Crim: Mm-hmm...







Crim: You go around different spots...







Boubede: Yeah.







Crim: ...around selling advertisements







Boubede: Yeah.







Crim: ... to different people,







Boubede: Yes.







Crim: ... is this so they will support the publications and that type of thing?







Boubede: Ya, ya, that is.







Bradley: Do you do any in California?







Boubede: No, I haven't. Actually, I came up here, uh, with an idea of, uh, putting out a map for California and ah, it's just too difficult.







Bradley: You do a lot of traveling around then, I suppose?







Boubede: A great deal. A great deal.







Bradley: Do you do that in your car? Is that...? I saw a car in your driveway...







Boubede: No, that's Martin's. That's Martin's, I fly.







Bradley: Oh, you do huh?







Boubede: Yeah, I can't drive, I'm epileptic.







Bradley: Oh, are ya?







Boubede: Marilyn and I both have the same thing.







Bradley: So you're not allowed to drive. How come you got a Calif., or you got a Nevada's license?







Boubede: Yes, but you'll notice that there's a pull on there, there's a, uh {Crim or Bradley is inspecting the ID] No, you''ll see it on the front- that a, uh [pause] line of numbers on there stops. I have to have someone in the car, uh, that is, uh, capable.







Crim: Hmm!







Bradley: Do we have anything like that in California? I don't know.







Crim: I don't know either. I've not seen it. I know there's restrictions on people like that.







Boubede: Yes, indeed, yes indeed. You can drive but you have to have someone in the car that's able.







Crim: To take control?







Boubede: Yeah, uh, in case, uh, you, uh, have a seizure.







Crim: Let me ask a question if you're into?







Bradley: [interrupting] Hey, uh, is that still going?







Crim: Well, I hope so.







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[23:35]







[TAPE TURNS ON]







Bradley: Yeah, it's still going.







[Clanking of something hollow and metallic, muttering, and Crim begins a question:







Crim: This National Police Reserve Officer's Association.







Boubede: Yes.







Crim: It's got the name Bobby Lake as a representative?







Boubede: Yes, yes.







Crim: What's the significance of that?







Boubede: That is, uhh... I'm sorry, that is one of the gentlemen that worked for me. I was, uh, staff, uh, on that organization. Uh, Rob worked for me on that.







Crim: Yeah, I just, I was just wondering why you had his I.D. card or whatever.







Boubede: Well, uh, I took it back from him when, uh, he quit.







Bradley: [pause] K... [long pause, probably Bradley starts whistling]







Crim: You, are you kind of advance man who makes most of the contacts for... with the various people, or what?







Boubede: Ummmm... Yes, I guess you could say that.







Crim: I don't know whether that's the correct terminology or not.







Boubede: Ya, promotional, promotional, yes, yes.







Crim: Who you gonna, uh, Who you gonna work for in Med, Klamath Falls?







Boubede: Uh... We're going into the, uh, F.O.P.







Crim: F.O.P. They're pretty wide spread all over, aren't they?







Boubede: Mm-hmm! Wonderful organization also. [Pause] I'm also a member of that out of, uh, Shaker Heights, Ohio.







Crim: Shaker Heights?







Boubede: Mm-hmm.







Bradley: That's in Cleveland, ain't it?







Boubede: Yeah, just outside of Cleveland.







Crim: [Long pause] Yeah, I wouldn't know bout that. I never been out there. [Laughter]







Boubede: You haven't missed too much







Bradley: No, you haven't







Crim: [overlapping] That's what I hear...







Boubede: ...you haven't missed too much.







Bradley: What did you do over in Reno?







Boubede: Ah, in Reno, I was in the veteran's hospital for my epilepsy [pause] and a brain scan.







Bradley: You have a heck of a time, don't you?







Boubede: Oh boy, I have a very, very bad seizure problem, very very bad seizure problem.







Bradley: And that plus your gunshot wound.







Boubede: I beg your pardon?







Bradley: That plus your gunshot wound you got some real problems.







Boubede: Yes sir.







[8 second pause]







Crim: So you were in the service then?







Boubede: Yes, sir.







Crim: Harry and I were both Navy men, what were you in?







Boubede: Air Corp.







Crim: Air Corp.







Boubede: The only way!







Crim: [Laughter}







Boubede: If you're Going into gunfire! [Laughter].







[15 second pause]







Crim: Do you, uh, recall overhearing Justin make any kind of statements after he came home that day?







Boubede: No, but ah, Marilyn and Marty and I were sitting in the front room, uh, following, oh, uh, THAT morning, that morning and uh, [6 second pause] Justin was playing with his brother Casey and uh, uh., he was saying, like, "I'll kill you, I'll kill you!", and, "This is how it was done", ya know?







Bradley: Yeah. He was doing that to who?







Boubede: Uh, to his brother.







Crim: His younger brother?







Boubede: Yeah.







Bradley: Yeah. Don't you think he must have seen something?







Crim: Hmm. Yeah.







Boubede: I would think so. Maybe, he shut it off.







Bradley: Pardon?







Boubede: Maybe he shut it off.







Crim: Closed off the mind, oh ya, very possible. Ya, it seems like if he was that vivid about it, and this was how it was done.







Boubede: Very vivid, very vivid, very vivid. Uh... They were wrestling on the floor and uh, he was holding his arm, and uh, [pause] my way not his, ah, "I'll kill you" and "I'll show you how".







Bradley: Man [Long pause] That's something.







Crim: Damn. That's interesting. Very interesting. You gotta, ya gotta think, 'did he see something', and it's just such total shock to him...







Boubede: Yeah, and as much as I hate to admit it, I'm afraid he must have.







Bradley: Yeah, probably so, you don't know... [pause] if he did at that.







Crim: But you know, as you well know, we're looking for anything that might help us.







Boubede: Right, right, any kind of thread.







Bradley: You live here with your niece? About a month?







Boubede: Niece and ya, approximately a month yes.







Crim: Anything else, John, that you can think of... Anything else Justin may have said or done or?







Boubede: No, not Justin, no.







Crim: Well, anybody as far as that's concerned. Anything that you can think about that may be significant, or even anything that's insignificant?







Boubede: Alright. um... Martin, Marilyn and I were sitting at the table. There were two couples sitting directly in back of us. There were four people sitting at the bar.







Crim: You're talking about the bar in here, downstairs, Keddie Back Door.







Boubede: Yes sir. Right. Uh, because, uh, Marty had called my attention to uh, saying my goodness or we've been crowded more than this. Uh [7 second pause] that's the only thing I can think of, the ONLY thing I can think of.







Crim: Those people were present.







Boubede: Yes.







Crim: Saturday night, they were all in there.







Boubede: Yes. Yes.







Bradley: But that isn't unusual hardly.







Boubede: No, but ah, [5 second pause] what I was thinking is, uh, I say is, uh, usually it's more crowded than this. Uh... Now, I asked Marty, uh, uh, about the young lady and uh... [pause] Well, I asked Marilyn actually, and, uh, she said no, uh, she didn't play around or anything like this here.







Crim: You mean the victim, you're talking about the victim?







Boubede: Yes, yes. Ah, she didn't play around. Uhh... [7 second pause] I don't think so.







Bradley: I can't think of anything else now [to Crim] How about you?







Crim: Well...







Bradley: Yeah, we had high hopes on you.







Boubede: did you?







Crim: Yeah [unintelligible, 31:06] said [unintelligible], that's what we thought, y'know?







Boubede: Mm-hmm? Mm-hmm.







Bradley: This, uh... Does a... Have you guys kicked it around over there at the house at all? What you might think?







Boubede: Oh yeah, oh yeah, Marty and I especially.







Bradley: Hmm... to who?







Boubede: Uh, Martin and I.







Bradley: Ya, I... Especially with Justin, I imagine he was







Boubede: No, not to much with Justin. Justin is pretty high strung.







Bradley: I mean that would be kind of scary, to have the kid in the house when that happened.







Boubede: Frightened Marilyn right to pieces.







Bradley: I would imagine.







Boubede: Uh, as a, as a matter of fact, after she went to your office this morning she went to, uh, to the doctor's office for a shot. [5 second pause] Umm... Martin and I have talked [5 second pause] and, uhh, [5 second pause] when Marilyn first mentioned it, when we, uh, when we heard the news, she was under the impression that this boy Dana, another one of the victims I imagine, I guess, ah, had done it...







Bradley: Yeah?







Boubede: ...because he was supposed to be a little short upstairs and, uhh, then she found out he wasn't involved, uhh, [5 second pause] she thought the husband, because the husband was supposed to be very, very jealous [5 second pause] and, uh, that was the only thing that, uh, that, uh, that she was thinking. And I, myself, I've never met the lady







Bradley: Yeah?







Boubede: ...and uh...







Bradley: Yeah... Where, uh..We'd sure like to know which way to go on this thing. What have you done here in the last month? Have you worked at all? Or just kinda kicked...







Boubede: No, I get a check.







Bradley: Oh, on this retirement thing?







Boubede: Yes.







Bradley: From Cook County?







Boubede: Yes.







Bradley: When were you in Reno in the hospital?







Boubede: Ah, Well. uhh, last, uhh... Well, two weeks prior to, uhh, Tuesday. [Clears throat loudly] Excuse me.







Bradley: Two weeks prior.







Boubede: To...







Bradley: Til...







Boubede: Tuesday.







Bradley: M'kay. And that's in the Vets hospital?







Boubede: Yes.







Bradley: Is that because of the epilepsy thing?







Boubede: Yes.







Bradley: How long were you in there?







Boubede: Uhh, also a suicide attempt.







Bradley: Hm. [5 second pause] Were you in the hospital long?







Boubede: Ah, about two weeks, actually.







Bradley: In other words, you were living here in Keddie, when you went down there?







Boubede: No, no, I was in Reno.







Bradley: Oh, were you?







Boubede: I was working in Reno.







Bradley: Were you working for an officer paper over there, too?







Boubede: No, uh, I was doing my own public thing.







Bradley: Hmmm... [pause] hmm.







Crim: You a gram too, also?







Boubede: No, no, I farm it out. Farm it out. Hmm.







Crim: You just do the layout and that kind of thing?







Boubede: Yeah.







Bradley: Well, you just go and have contact with the people in the advertments in the papers?







Boubede: Yeah.







Bradley: Is that pretty good business?







Boubede: Depends. It can be, it can be.







Crim: You came over after you got out of the hospital.







Boubede: Uh, yes. Uh, well, see, I had known Marty, uh, prior to his marrying uh, Marilyn. Uh, and, uh, I had Marty interested in putting out a map for Keddie [4 second pause] and, uh, for Quincy and East Quincy. And , uh, we went to the, umm, Chamber of Commerce and, uh, they set up for us to meet them on the 28th of this month, uh, to present our map and, uh, our presentation. And then, uh, this thing came up in Klamath Falls and I said, "well, fine, we'll take that, if you like." And then, uh, with Marilyn becoming so upset and, uh, Justin becoming so upset. We supposed, if she don't mind, uh, if you'd go down, and, uh, I'll be down, uh, Monday morning.







Crim: Is he going to fly up there from here?







Boubede: Uhh... Bus.







Crim: Bus.







Bradley: What's the outfit up there?







Boubede: In Central Peak.







Bradley: I mean the name of the place you're going to work up there in Klamath Falls?







Boubede: The Terminal of the Police...







Bradley: Oh, the terminal? I missed that. In Klamath Falls, uhh... Are they going to join you later up there?







Boubede: Uh, Marty will. And in turn, we expect to return here around the 27th so we can meet the Chamber.







Bradley: Here in...







Crim: Oh, so you're coming back for your meeting with them?







Boubede: [Talking oveer Crim] Yes. And then, uh, we're going to put the map out here.







Bradley: You think... M... Marty will join you up there though, in case we have to...?







Boubede: Oh, definitely. Oh, yes. definitely.







Bradley: You got a place to stay up there, again?







Boubede: Oh, yes.







Bradley: Mmm. Where is that going to be?







Boubede: Arcade Inn.







Bradley: Arcadia?







Boubede: Arcadia.







Crim: Is that a hotel, or what?







Boubede: Uh, motel.







Crim: In, uh, Klamath Falls?







Boubede: Yes.







Bradley: OK, Just if something up comes up and we want to give you a holler... When do you think Marty will join you?







Boubede: I expect him no later than Sunday night or early Monday morning.







Bradley: Hmm. [7 second pause] And Marilyn just going to stay here and







Boubede: Yes.







Bradley:...keep the place, huh?







Boubede: Yes.







[5 second pause]







Bradley: Well, doggone it, I don't know what else. Can you think of anything that we haven't asked you that you think would shed a light on this thing?







Boubede: [15 second pause, then, in a very low voice] No, not a thing.







Crim: Well, if you do, John, you know







Boubede: I'll damn sure call you. [unintelligible, 37:52, sounds like he's jokingly saying, "Before you find us."]







Crim: Call the sheriff's office.







Bradley: How much did you, do you think you had to drink that night?







Boubede: One drink.







Bradley: Is that it?







Boubede: Uh huh.







Crim: Oh, Saturday night? You only had one drink all night, huh?







Boubede: Yes.







Crim: That was when you came back down.







Boubede: I don't drink that much, uh... [10 second pause]







Bradley: I mean, before you went home, how much did you have to drink?







Boubede: One.







Bradley: The first time you were here, you had one drink?







Boubede: Ah, well, when I first came down, ah, we had cokes.







Bradley: Just plain coke?







Boubede: Ya.







Bradley: All three of you?







Boubede: Ah, no, they drank... Uh, Marilyn had a beer, Marty drank beer, ah, and I drank cokes. Uh, when Marty and I went back, uh, I had one drink, and Marty had a mixed drink.







Crim: You had the CC and coke, you said?







Boubede: Right.







Crim: That's the only drink you had all night, y'say?







Boubede: Yeah.







Crim: Mm-kay.







Bradley: And Marty? What did Marty have when he came back?







[18 second pause]







Boubede: I'm thinking... a beer.







Bradley: Just one?







Boubede: Yup, yup.







Bradley: And the earlier time, it was just one beer?







Boubede: No, no. No. The earlier time, it was about, uh... possibly three of them.







Bradley: OK [pause] Would you say anybody was drunk?







Boubede: Oh, no, no, not at all. Not at all.







Bradley: Mm-kay... You had your faculties with you pretty good, huh?







Boubede: Oh, yes, indeed.







Bradley: So, prolly, y'knonw, if you were drunk, you may not have heard anything, and, err. you wouldn't have seen something?







Boubede: No, no, we were, uh, in complete control. If, uh, something, uh, [pause] had been wrong, we definitely would have noticed it, definitely.







Bradley: Ohh.. Hmm-kay.







Boubede: That's why I say, uh, I, I, I just can't fathom this.







Bradley: Mmm.







Crim: You didn't happen, by chance... and I know it's just a long shot in the dark... You didn't happen, by chance, to know what type of, what state license plate was on that Corvair? Did that attract your attention?







Boubede: No, no.







Crim: Well, I just thought I'd ask while I... put that out there..







Boubede: Ahhh... [7 second pause, then very quietly] wait a second. That calls something to mind.







Bradley: Is that still goin'? Yeah.







[movement of tape deck, large metallic crash]







Bradley: Why don't you just check that, to see if it's working?







Boubede: The California...







[TAPE TURNS OFF]







[40:30]







[TAPE TURNS ON]







[Loud thumping and crashing, oblitrating the discussion]







Boubede: [unintelligible, 40:36]







Crim: Yeah..







Bradley: Yeah.







Boubede: It get's kinda...







Crim: Yeah..







Bradley: Yeah.







Boubede: a pain..







Crim: Well, ya, I've, I've found myself doing that, when I was [uninelligible]...







Boubede: Uhh, dark blue or possibly black, but I think dark blue, uhh... California license plates.







Bradley: Hmm... Kay... Yeah... [11 second pause] Well, anything you wanna ask?







Crim: Hmm.







Bradley: Do try to think, cause we may not get to talk to you again.







Boubede: Well, I hope you don't have to, but I'll state the business: I wish I could help you more. I really do.







Crim: Yeah, we appreciate that. We're digging for anything we can that may shed some kind of light. [Pause] Well, we'll shut, shut this off temporarilly, less you get something.







Bradley: Yeah.







[TAPE TURNS OFF]







[41:30]







[TAPE TURNS ON]







Boubede: [muttering something unintelligible in a low voice, while Crim speaks loudly]







Crim: Terminate this interview approximately 11:10 am.







[TAPE TURNS OFF]







[41:36, AFTER RECORDER TURNED OFF TWO MINUTES}







[TAPE TURNS ON]







Crim: We're going to go back on tape here, Mr. Boubede, thinks he might remember something, approx. 11:12.







Boubede: Marty had called and, uh [5 second pause] and had remarked to the bartender, uhhh... [pause] uhh, the owner rather, who I believe his name was Bill, that his wife, Jan, had went to the disc-jockey and said, "don't play this rock and roll any more", or, "don't play this hillbilly music any more. Play rock and roll" And, uh... {long pause] Be it all... Uh, the two coupled that were sitting directly in back of us had left just a second or two before, and then we had left, and we went down, and Marty had called and remarked to the fact, uh, that, that he didn't appreciate that, uh, why in the heck, uh, ya know, uh, should a lady be able to control, uh, the, uh, the, the records? Uhhhh... [18 second pause] There was also an old Ford, [9 second pause] 55, 56, 57, 58, in there somewhere. I can't recall what color, uh, nor the license plate, uh... that was sitting a car or two down from the Corvair,







[TAPE RUNS OUT, 43:34] [Appox 11:14 am]







[TAPE TURNS ON]







Crim: We're going to continue this tape, Mr. Boubede, and if you will, please continue where you were?







Boubede: Uhh... I'm under the impression that all of the cars that go to the bar are parked directly in back of the bar. Now, these 5 or 6 cars that were sitting up in there, in the area of where the... the victim's house was at, and there was at least 5 or 6... Uh, 2 or 3 cars down from the Corvair, between a 55 and 58 Ford. Uhhh... I can't recall the coloring nor the license plate







Bradley: [7 second pause] Can't do it, huh?







Boubede: No sir.







Crim: [10 second pause] Ok... Okay, well, we appreciate this. Again, terminate this approx. 11:15 am.







[TAPE TURNS OFF]







[44:46]







[TAPE TURNS ON]







Boubede: And, uhh... there's certain things you'll miss...







Crim: Back on the tape.







Boubede: And, uh, certain things you'll hear, [17 second pause] Something is sitting in the back of my mind, that something had happened downstairs, and I can't recall what it was. [9 second pause] Gentleman that owns the bar, sandy hair, [pause] Or, uhhh... Believe his name was Bill. [9 second pause] I'm blanking.







Bradley: Yeah, we [unintelligible]







Crim: Ya, we're going to have to talk to a lot of people around.







Bradley: Ya, we'll talk to him, he might, you know, he knows who was there, he probably... Most bartenders know the people in the bars.







Boubede: Ya, ya, I wish I could be more help.







Bradley: Well, you have helped. [pause, then, laughing] And then you haven't. I mean, you've been cooperative, but I mean, as far as helping, wish you'd-a seen something, but...







Boubede: [Loudly] Hmmm!







Bradley: Of course [unintelligible, 46:04] let us know by now, before now. Marty would have.







Boubede: Well, umm, Marilyn is completely destroyed, and then, uhh, Justin has been completely destroyed.







Crim: We about done here?







Bradley: Yeah.







Crim: This is, Martin, uh, Smartt.... This is my partner,...







Smartt: Oh, Hi!







Crim: ...Harry Bradley







Bradley: How ya doing?







Smartt: How ya doin' there, Harry?







Bradley: Good!







Smartt: Thanks.







Crim: I think we're..







Smartt: [ To Boubede] I'm sorry!...







Crim: I think we're through anyway.







Smartt: I put your medicine up, and didn't leave it out for you.







Boubede: Oh, that's all







[INTERVIEW ENDS] [46:29]







[Approx 11:17 am]







[Marty's interview begins at approx 11:25]







Typed DOJ version, per Hancock:



Crim: This will be an interview with Mr. John S. Boubede, capital Boubede, this the correct address, John?







John: Yes.







Crim: [address] Reno, Nevada by Special Agents Harry Bradley and P.E. Crim, Jr., California Department of Justice conducted at the Keddie Resort, banquet room of the main building. Time is approximately 1027 am.







Bradley: O.K. John, up the house there, maybe I better move that tape over a little bit so it picks up on everybody talking. It's understand that Mr. Smart mentioned that we were coming out here.







John: Ah, yah.







Bradley: He called a little earlier?







John: Ah, yes, he had called a short time before.







Bradley: Now, today.







John: Yah.







Bradley: He said we were coming out to talk to you?







John: Yah.







Bradley: O.K., and the reason why we want to talk to you right now is the fact that we understand that you might be leaving the area.







John: Yah, sometime this evening, as a matter of fact.







Bradley: We're primarily interested in if you saw or heard anything Saturday night. You know what occurred down the street?







John: Yes.







Bradley: At the home over there.







Crim: Where those people were talking about the situation.







Bradley: You were here Saturday night, right?







John: Yes sir.







Bradley: O.K., and I understood possibly this is hearsay, that you may have went out and down to the bar and so forth?







John: Yes, ah, Marilyn, Mrs. Smartt.







Bradley: Is that Marilyn, Mrs. Smartt's first name, Marilyn?







John: Yes, ah Mrs. Smartt, Mr. Smartt and myself had went down there approximately, oh 9:30 - 10:00.







Bradley: 9:30 or 10:00. Now, what's Mr. Smartt's first name?







John: Ah, Marty.







Bradley: Marty. We've never met him, so I don't know. The three of you went down to the bar?







John: Yes.







Bradley: I take it you walked over there?







John: Yes.







Bradley: When you got to the bar, was there many people in there? Was it big night type of thing?







John: I would say approximately 7 or 8.







Bradley: Did you know any of the other people in the bar?







John: No.







Bradley: Was ah, did they appear to be residents of Keddie or were they?







John: Yah, yes.







Bradley: Most of the people in the bar lived considerably...







John: Ah, I'm saying that ah Martin knew most of them.







Bradley: So he could probably help us out here?







John: Yah, yah.







Bradley: What we're trying to do is find out the people that were around that night, that particular time. Is that tape picking up? O.K., Marty, you feel Marty probably knew most of the people?







John: Yes, I did. Ah, he introduced me to one or two of them as a matter of fact. We left shortly before 1:00 because of a change in music.







Bradley: What kind of music was changed?







John: It was changed from Country and Western to ah, rock & roll and Marty had called.







Bradley: I don't blame you for leaving there.







John: Not at all, ah, Marty had called the gentleman who owned the bar as soon as we returned home and ah, complained about that. And he said that he was sorry and we went back down to have a drink and apologize to him.







Bradley: Who was the man, who did he call do you know?







John: Bill, I think.







Bradley: Bill, he's the bar manager?







John: I believe so, yes.







Bradley: Was he the guy tending bar or was there a gentleman?







John: Yes, yes he was the gentleman tending, tending the bar.







Bradley: I take when they change music, that's just the machine, they don't have live music?







John: Ah, it, they disco type thing, you know, they play the records.







Bradley: So then after you got home you made this call and then came back down, back to the bar?







John: Uh huh, uh huh, Marilyn had stayed home.







Bradley: Which, what way did you walk when you went back home?







John: Directly down this street here.







Bradley: So you came out of the bar, that's downstairs here?







John: Yes sir.







Bradley: Now when you were, when you came out of the bar, and when you came, how long was it that you were gone, that you came back?







John: You mean how long were we in the bar?







Bradley: No, I should rephrase that. When you guys didn't like the music, you left the bar, went home. Alright now, let's get that, when you came through the parking lot and up the street, did you pass the victims' house?







John: Ah yes.







Bradley: Three of you?







John: Ah, yes.







Bradley: Now did you see any, what was the condition of the house? Were there any lights on in there, do you recall?







John: Ah, I didn't notice.







Bradley: Didn't notice. Did you hear any noise from the, from within the house?







John: No.







Bradley: You didn't notice any lights or any noise?







John: No.







Bradley: What about any cars parked out front?







John: There were several cars parked right here in the immediate area.







Bradley: By here, you mean around the resort area?







John: Ah, just, ah...directly back from the resort, like, ah, towards the cabin area.







Bradley: Not down by the bar, but this parking lot over here?







John: Right.







Bradley: So there were several cars parked there?







John: Right. The only one I could tell you was a Corvair.







Bradley: Corvair? What color was it?







John: Either a very dark blue, or black.







Bradley: Had you see that around here before?







John: Ah, well, I've only been here a short time, ah, about a month.







Crim: About a month you've been here?







John: About a month. So I wouldn't be able to say.







Bradley: Was there any traffic? Any cars moving? Along the road when you and Marilyn, Mr. Smartt walked home?







John: No.







Bradley: No cars moving. After you got home, that's when Mr. Smartt called the bar? Did he do that right away?







John: Immediately.







Bradley: Did you hear what he had to say?







John: Ah he was very unhappy.







Bradley: Again, I can say I don't blame him. I hate that rock and roll. And they always have to play it so dang loud you can hardly hear. I wonder why people go for that stuff. How long after he made the complaint did you guys go back?







John: Oh, maybe 10 minutes. I felt as though we should apologize cause the way Marty had talked to him.







Bradley: Oh, what was that?







John: Well, ya know, he was, ah, darn ya know, you lost 3 good customers we come in all the time and my goodness you shouldn't do this here and your wife came in and said she's running it and this is not so. So ah, I just thought we should go back and apologize.







Bradley: Sounds like a good idea. Being he lives here, he has to probably go in there a lot.







John: Uh huh.







Bradley: Now that time when you went back, did you see any cars? Around that house up there?







John: Not that I noticed.







Bradley: Were there any lights on in the house or ay sign of a disturbance at all?







John: I wouldn't even know the house, unless you pointed it out to me.







Bradley: You don't know the house, which one we're talking about?







John: No.







Bradley: Oh, I thought you'd know. Well, we'll point it out to you on the way back. It's the second one, you know where the Seabolts live on the corner?







John: No sir.







Bradley: Hum...







John: Like I say, I've only been here about a month, I know very few people here. Relatively few.







Bradley: Ya, do you know where Justin spent the night that night?







John: Yes sir, ah, at a friend's, that's all.







Bradley: Oh, you don't know what house it was?







John: No, no.







Bradley: Since Saturday, have you seen a lot of police cars there and?







John: Oh yes, oh yes.







Bradley: Going in and out of a house?







John: Yes.







Bradley: This house right up the street?







John: Uh huh.







Bradley: That's the house I'm talking about.







John: Well, I saw them on the street but I didn't know ah, in which house.







Bradley: O.K., should have pointed that out to you on the way down. I'll do that on the way up so you know what house I'm talking about to see if you recall any, was there lights on in any of the homes?







John: Not that I recall.







Crim: Did you hear anybody talking or anybody hollering or anything like that?







John: No.







Crim: Did you see anybody walking down the street?







John: No.







Bradley: The only activity then appeared to be down around the bar?







John: Ah there wasn't too much there, there wasn't too much there, ah, there was about 5 or 6 cars parked over in that area, right there, 5 or 6.







Bradley: In the parking lot there?







John: Not at the bar, in that area over by those apartments, and I think what caught my attention was the Corvair.







Crim: Ya, you don't see too many of those around any more.







John: Huh uh, that's the first thing that caught my mind.







Bradley: When you went back to the bar then, how many people were in it then?







John: Possibly 4 or 5.







Bradley: There were less customers then.







John: Yes, yes.







Bradley: Maybe they got the message too and didn't like the music.







John: Mm, I can appreciate that.







Bradley: Were they women or men or do you remember that?







John: About half and half.







Bradley: Did you talk to the bartender when you got back?







John: Yes, ah, he apologized.







Bradley: Mr. Martin did?







John: For the music and ah







Bradley: You mean the bartender apologized?







John: Mm, he is also the owner or manager.







Crim: What's his name?







John: I believe Bill.







Bradley: So then I guess everything was hunky dory and you guys just had a couple more to drink or?







John: Ah, had one more drink and then we left and went back home.







Bradley: Mm.







Crim: Here again, you saw or heard nothing unusual?







John: Huh uh.







Crim: Saw nobody on the street, or no cars moving around?







John: Nothing at all.







Bradley: What are you normally drinking?







John: Ah, Cokes as a rule.







Bradley: Coke.







John: But that time I had a CC and Coke.







Bradley: That last time huh?







John: Yes.







Bradley: There wasn't a female bartender on duty.







John: No, male.







Bradley: Just a male.







John: Ah, Bill, I believe. Ah, female waitress.







Bradley: There was a female waitress. Do you know her name?







John: No, I don't.







Bradley: Cause they may know these people, we can get ahold of her, she may know some of those people in the bar.







John: There wasn't more than 8 or 9. Most.







Crim: In the bar?







John: At the top, when we were in there.







Bradley: How long do you think you were there on the second time around?







John: Oh, 30 minutes tops, because ah, the reason I say that is we were finishing our drink, and he said no more drinks because two are magic.







Crim: He didn't say time to close or anything like that?







John: No, he said no more drinks.







Bradley: That's for everybody?







John: Yup.







Bradley: So then what, you left, got up and left?







John: Yes.







Bradley: Was anybody in the bar after you left or?







John: Mm.







Bradley: I know there's generally people that hang around after the bar closes, shoot the bull and stuff.







John: I really don't know.







Crim: But Martin seemed to know most everybody that was in there.







John: Ah, he knew a few.







Crim: A few, not all of them.







Bradley: You don't know any of them?







John: No.







Bradley: So we're thinking around 2:00 that you guys left the bar probably.







John: Ya.







Bradley: That would be a pretty good guess?







John: Ya, ya.







Bradley: How come Marilyn didn't go back with you guys?







John: Well, we went back because Marty was upset with the bartender, ah, because of the change in music more than anything else.







Bradley: So she just stayed home, huh?







John: Ya.







Bradley: After you left here, then this would be the third time you walked back, you walked back home?







John: Uh huh.







Bradley: Did you see any activity at that time?







John: Nothing unusual.







Bradley: Nothing unusual. No lights, cars, traffic, anything.







Crim: Pertinent.







John: This is what was so surprising to me because I'm a very light sleeper and if there's an unusual noise...







Bradley: Pick right up on it.







John: Ya, and ah, I didn't hear anything at all.







Bradley: When you got back to the house, was Marilyn up or in bed or what?







John: No, she was up.







Bradley: She was still up. What's your relation to them?







John: Marilyn's my niece.







Crim: Your sister or your brother's daughter, which?







John: My sister is her mother.







Crim: Mm.







Bradley: I never get that straight, can't figure that out. This thing might go on for some time you know, be talking to a lot of people.







John: God, I hope note.







Bradley: Well, I hope not, but there's a good chance it will.







John: No, I mean in regards to the thing. So terrible, I don't think anything.







Bradley: I don't either. If we had to get a hold of you again, how could we do that?







John: Very easily, contact Marilyn. And she has my forwarding address. I'm going to Klamath Falls, Oregon to work for a police newspaper.







Bradley: What are you going to do there?







John: Sell advertisements.







Bradley: Is that your occupation?







John: Well, since I retired, yes.







Crim: You said yesterday you were a retired police officer.







John: Yes.







Crim: From where?







John: Cook County, Illinois.







Crim: Cook County, sheriff's office?







John: Yes, Sheriff's Department.







Bradley: How many years, John?







John: 18, I was retired because of a gunshot wound.







Crim: Medical disability?







John: Ya.







Bradley: Cook County S.O. Dang, I wish I could think of the guy's name. When did you leave there?







John: 1958.







Bradley: Oh.







Crim: Oh well, that kid...it's been long after that.







John: I was there when Chuck Fransine was there.







Crim: So you retired in 1958.







John: Ya, didn't want to but...







Bradley: How long had you been on there?







John: Ah, I had been on 18 years then.







Crim: What kind of deal did you, that happen, that you got shot.







John: Ah, it was in an armed robbery and ah, I was foolish enough to try and take his gun.







Bradley: Ya, that ain't too good.







John: And, ah, that's it, public felon, pumped me through my hip and through my groin, up in through here, severed some nerves and ah,







Bradley: Boy, you're lucky, dang lucky.







John: Not really, not really, I'm completely impotent.







Bradley: Oh are you really?







John: Ya.







Bradley: Done the job on you, huh?







John: Tried his damnest, tried his damnest. Got 10 years for it.







Bradley: Is that right. All he got huh, made you totally impotent though huh?







John: Uh-huh. Nothing, let's put it that way, nothing.







Bradley: What about desire?







John: Oh, yes. Yes.







Bradley: Lots of desire but you can't.







John: Yes, but that's all, that's all.







Bradley: That would be a heck of a shape to be in for sure. After you left the department did you stay in Chicago or did you come out?







John: No, I left and went to Indiana and ah, I opened a tractor and trailer firm in Lansing, Illinois, and I stayed with it for approximately 8 years, ya about 8 years and then I left there to come into public relations and advertising.







Bradley: Where was that?







John: Ah Indiana, starting Indiana then I went to Virginia and then I went to Biloxi, Mississippi.







Bradley: What kind of work did you like?







John: It's all advertising with Policeman's newspaper.







Bradley: Oh, it's been police newspapers?







John: Ah, like F. Hope, he ah, which I belong to, ah, P.A.L., which I also belong to.







Bradley: P.A.L. is what?







John: Police Athletic LEague. Ah, Childrens Benevolent Assoc. Actually, it's a Nationwide thing.







Crim: You go around different spots around the country selling advertisements to different people, is this so they will support the publications and that type of thing?







John: Ya, ya, that is.







Bradley: Do you do any in California?







John: No, I haven't. Actually, I came up here with an idea of putting out a map for California and ah, it's just too difficult.







Bradley: You do a lot of traveling around then?







John: A great deal. A great deal.







Bradley: Do you do that in your car? That's not the car that you're driving is it?







John: No, that's Martin's. That's Martin's, I fly.







Bradley: Oh, you do huh?







John: Ya, I can't drive, I'm epileptic.







Bradley: Oh, are ya?







John: Marilyn and I both have the same thing.







Bradley: So you're not allowed to drive. How come you got a Calif., or you got a Nevada's license?







John: Yes, but you'll notice that there's a pull on there, there's a--you'll see on the front that the line of numbers on there stops. I have to have someone in the car that is capable.







Bradley: Hm, do we have anything like that in California?







Crim: I don't know either. I know there's restrictions on people.







John: Yes, indeed, yes indeed. You can drive but you have to have someone in the car that's able.







Crim: To take control?







John: Ya, in case you have a seizure.







Crim: Let me ask a question if you're into it? This national police reserve officer association.







John: Yes.







Crim: It's got the name of Bobby Lake as representative?







John: Yes, yes. I'm sorry, that is one of the gentlemen that worked for me. I was staff on that organization, Rob worked for me on that.







Crim: Ya, I was just wondering why you had his I.D. card or whatever.







John: Well, I took it back from him when he quit.







Crim: Do you, are you kind of advance man made supposed to contract with the various people or what?







John: Yes, I guess you could say that.







Crim: I don't know whether that's the correct terminology or not.







John: Ya, promotional, promotional, yes, yes.







Crim: Who you gonna work for in Med, Klamath Falls?







John: We're going into the F.O.P.







Crim: F.O.P. They're pretty wide spread all over, aren't they?







John: Mm, wonderful organization also. I'm also a member of that out of Shaker Heights, Ohio.







Crim: Shaker Heights?







John: Ya.







Bradley: That's in Cleveland, ain't it?







John: Ya, just outside of Cleveland.







Crim: We know about that.







John: You haven't missed too much, you haven't missed too much.







Bradley: What did you do over in Reno?







John: Ah, in Reno, I was in the veteran's hospital for my epilepsy and a brain scan.







Bradley: You have a heck of a time, don't you?







John: Oh boy, I have a bad seizure problem, very very bad seizure problem.







Bradley: You have that plus your gunshot wound.







John: I beg your pardon?







Bradley: That plus your gunshot wound you got some real problems.







John: Yes sir.







Crim: So you were in the service then?







John: Yes.







Crim: Harry and I were both Navy men, what were you in?







John: Air Core.







Crim: Air Core.







John: Is the only way, going into gun fire.







Crim: So you recall overhearing Justin make any kind of statements when he came home that day?







John: No, but ah, Marilyn and Marty and I were sitting in the front room, ah, following, that morning, that morning and ah, Justin was playing with his brother Casey and ah, he said, I'll kill you, I'll kill you, and this is how it was done, ya know.







Bradley: He was doing that to who?







John: His brother.







Crim: His younger brother?







John: Ya.







Bradley: You think he must have seen something, huh?







John: I would think so. Maybe, he shut it off.







Bradley: Pardon?







John: Maybe he shut it off.







Crim: Closed off the mind, oh ya, very possible. Ya, it seems like if he was that vivid about it, and this was how it was done.







John: Very vivid, very vivid, very vivid. They were wrestling on the floor and ah, he was holding his arm, and ah, my way not his, ah, I'll kill you and I'll show you how.







Bradley: Man, that's something.







Crim: Yah. Very interesting. You gotta think did he see something, and just the total shock to him that







John: Yah, and as much as I hate to admit it, I'm afraid he must have.







Bradley: Ya, probably so, you don't know.







Crim: But you know, as you well know, we're looking for anything that might help us.







John: Right, right, any kind of threat.







Bradley: You live here with your niece? About a month?







John: Niece and ya, approximately a month yes.







Crim: Anything else, John? Anything else that Justin may have said or done or?







John: No, not Justin, no.







Crim: Well, anybody as far as that's concerned. Anything that you can think about, or even anything else.







John: Alright. Martin, Marilyn and I were sitting at the table, there were two couples sitting directly in back of ours. There were four people sitting at the bar.







Crim: You're talking about the bar in here, downstairs, Keddie Back Door.







John: Yes sir. Right. Ah, because Marty had called my attention to ah, saying my goodness or you've been crowded more than this. Ah, that's the only thing I can think of, the only thing I can think of.







Crim: Those people were present.







John: Yes.







Crim: Saturday night, they were all in there.







John: Ya.







Bradley: But that isn't unusual however.







John: No, but ah, what I was thinking is I say and stuff, usually it's more crowded in there. Now, I asked Marty, ah, about the young lady and ah, well, I asked Marilyn actually and she said no, ah, she didn't play around or anything like this here.







Crim: You mean the victim, you're talking about the victim?







John: Yes, yes. Ah, she didn't play around.







Bradley: I can't think of anything else. We had high hopes on you?







John: Ya?







Bradley: Have you guys kicked it around over there at the house at all?







John: Oh ya, oh ya. Marty and I especially.







Bradley: Who?







John: Martin and I.







Bradley: Ya, I especially with Justin, I imagine he was







John: No, no, not to much with Justin. Justin is pretty high strung.







Bradley: I mean that would be kind of scary, have the kid in the house when that happened.







John: Frightened Marilyn to pieces.







Bradley: I would imagine.







John: Matter of fact, after she went to your office this morning she went to the doctor's office for a shot. Martin and I have talked and ah, when Marilyn first mentioned it, when we heard the news, she was under the impression that this boy Dana, one of the victims I imagine, I guess, ah, had done it because he was supposed to be a little short upstairs and then she found out he wasn't involved, she thought the husband, because the husband was supposed to be very very jealous an ah, that was the only thing that ah, that she was thinking and I myself, I've never met the lady and ah,







Bradley: Where, ah, we'd sure like to know which way to go on this thing. What have you done here in the last month, have you worked at all?







John: No, no. I get a check.







Bradley: Oh, on this retirement.







John: Yes.







Bradley: From Cook County?







John: Yes.







Bradley: When were you in Reno in the hospital?







John: Ah, well, two weeks prior to Tuesday.







Bradley: Two weeks prior.







John: Till Tuesday.







Bradley: And that's in the Vets hospital? Is that because of the epilepsy?







John: Yes.







Bradley: How long were you in there?







John: Also suicide attempt.







Bradley: Hm. Were you in the hospital long?







John: Ah, about two weeks actually.







Bradley: In other words, you were living here in Keddie, when you went down there?







John: No, no, I was in Reno.







Bradley: Oh, were you?







John: I was working in Reno.







Bradley: Were you working for an officer paper over there?







John: No, I was doing my own public thing.







Crim: You a gram too, also?







John: No, no, I farm it out.







Crim: You just do the layout and that kind of thing?







John: Ya.







Bradley: Just go and have contact with all the people in the advertise in the paper?







John: Ya.







Bradley: Is that pretty good business.







John: Depends. It can be, it can be.







Crim: You came over after you got out of the hospital.







John: Yes, well, see, I had known Marty and ah, prior to his marrying Marilyn. Ah, and I had Marty interested in putting out a map for Keddie and Quincy and East Quincy and ah, we went to the Chamber of Commerce and they set up to meet them on the 28th of this month to present our map and ah, or our presentation and then ah, this thing came up, and ah, in Klamath Falls and I said well, fine, we'll take that if you like and ah, Marilyn becoming so upset and Justin becoming so upset. He go, she don't mind, you go down and I'll be down Monday morning.







Crim: Is he going to fly up there from here?







John: No, bus.







Crim: Bus.







Bradley: What's the outfit up there?







John: In Central Peak.







Bradley: I mean the name of the place you're going to work up there in Klamath Falls?







John: The terminal of the?







Bradley: Oh, I was mixed up. In Klamath Falls, though, are they going to join you later up there?







John: Ah, Marty will. And in turn, he expected to return here around the 27th so he can meet the Chamber.







Crim: Oh, he's going to come back the 28th.







John: And then we're going to put the map out here.







Bradley: You think Marty will join you up there though?







John: Oh, definitely, oh, yes.







Bradley: You got a place to stay up there?







John: Oh ya.







Bradley: And where is that going to be?







John: Arcadia.







Bradley: Arcadia?







John: Arcadia.







Crim: Is that a motel?







John: Motel.







Crim: In Klamath Falls?







John: Yes.







Bradley: Just in case something up comes up and we want to give you a call. When do you think Marty will join you?







John: I expect him no later than Sunday night or early Monday morning.







Bradley: And Marilyn just going to stay here and keep the place, huh?







John: Yes.







Bradley: Well, doggone it, I don't know what else, can you think of anything that we haven't asked you that you think would shed a light on this thing?







John: No, not a thing.







Crim: Well, if you do, John, you know







John: I'll damn sure call you.







Crim: Call the sheriff's office.







Bradley: How much did you, do you think you had to drink that night?







John: That one drink.







Bradley: Is that it?







John: Uh huh.







Crim: On Saturday night, you only had one drink all night, huh?







John: Yes.







Crim: That was when you came back down.







John: I don't drink that much, ah,







Bradley: I mean before you went home, how much did you have to drink?







John: One.







Bradley: The first time you were in there you had one drink?







John: Ah, well, when I first came down, ah, we had cokes.







Bradley: Just plain cokes.







John: Ya.







Bradley: All three of you?







John: Ah, no, they drank. Marilyn had a beer, Marty drank beer, ah, and I drank a coke. And Marty and I went back I had one drink and Marty had a mixed drink.







Crim: You had the C C and coke?







John: Right.







Crim: And that's the only drink you had all night then?







John: Yes.







Bradley: What did Marty have when he came back?







John: I'm thinking a beer.







Bradley: Just one.







John: Yup, yup.







Bradley: And the earlier time it was just one beer?







John: No, no. No, the earlier time it was about, possibly 3 of them.







Bradley: Would you say anybody was drunk?







John: Oh, no, no, not at all, not at all.







Bradley: You had your faculties with you pretty good?







John: Oh yes, indeed.







Bradley: So if you were drunk, you may not have heard anything or you wouldn't have seen?







John: No, no, we were in complete control. If something had been wrong, we definitely would have noticed it, definitely. That's why I say, ah, if, I, I, just can't fathom this.







Crim: You didn't happen by chance and I know it's just a long shot in the dark, you didn't happen by chance to know what type of, what State license plate was on that Corvair? That attracted your attention.







John: No, no.







Crim: Well, I just thought I'd ask.







John: Um, wait a second, something crossed my mind. The California I noticed--







Crim: Well, ya, I've found myself doing that.







John: Ah, dark blue or possibly black, but I think dark blue, California license plates.







Bradley: Just trying to think, cause we may not get to talk to you.







John: Well I hope you don't have to but I'll put to goodness, I wish I could help you more, I really do.







Crim: Well, we appreciate that, cause we're digging for anything we can that may shed some kind of light. Terminate this interview approximately 11:10 am.







Crim: We're going to go back on tape here, Mr. Boubede, thinks he might remember something, approx. 11:12.







John: Marty had called and ah, and remarked to the bartender, the owner rather, who I believe his name was Bill that his wife Jan had went to the disc-jockey and said, don't play this rock and roll or don't play this hillbilly music anymore, play rock and roll and ah, did, ah, the two coupled that were sitting directly in back of us had left just a second or two before and then we had left and we went down and Marty had called and remarked to the fact that, that he didn't appreciate that ah, why in the heck, ya know, should a lady be able to control, the ah, the records? Ah, there was also an old Ford, 55, 56, 57, 58, in there somewhere, I can't recall what color, nor the license plate that was sitting a car or two down from the Corvair,







Crim: Mr. Boubede, and if you will, please continue where you were?







John: I'm under the impression that all of the cars that go to the bar are parked directly in the back of the bar, now these 5 or 6 cars that were sitting up in there, in the area of where the victim's house was at, and there was at least 5 or 6. Ah, 2 or 3 cars down from the Corvair, between a 55 or 58 Ford, I can't recall the coloring or the license plate







Bradley: Can't do it, huh?







John: No sir.







Crim: Well, we appreciate this. Again, terminate approx. 11:15 am.







Back on the tape.







John: And ah, certain sounds you'll hear, Something in the back of my mind that something had happened downstairs and I can't recall what it was. Gentleman that owns the bar, sandy hair, believe his name was Bill.







Crim: Ya, we're going to have to talk to a lot of people around.







Bradley: Ya, we'll talk to him, he might, you know, he knows who was there, most bartenders know the people in the bar.







John: Ya, ya, I wish I could be more help.







Bradley: Well, you have helped. And then you haven't. You've been cooperative but I mean as far as helping, wish you could have seen something, course the interview, you would have let us know by now, before now. Marty would have.







John: Well, Marilyn is completely destroyed and Justin's is destroyed.







Crim: We about done here?