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Post by joemcplumber on Mar 20, 2022 21:11:36 GMT
, for Saturday night 4/11/81 Jan S statement:Mary B statement:Blaine Gruebert:I'm not rebutting McNarie's interpretation because i don't understand it, it makes no sense to me. To my mind ^that is pretty much what an alibi IS. .
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mike
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Post by mike on Apr 15, 2022 21:28:16 GMT
OK, but what about the day after? Dmac says Blaine already knew about the murders and he rode to Keddie with Wade. He says Blaine didn't called Nina on the phone like he said. What were Blaine and Wade doing there?
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Post by snoho17 on Apr 15, 2022 22:38:42 GMT
I'd like to see the line of reasoning for this but IIRC, Blain spent the night next door to the Meeks. If he didn't call maybe he just walked over? IDK. "Dmac says" alot of things. In these reports which we can see, I'm much more interested in the two WMA's and their back and forth that day/night. AND the Oakland Camp party. I believe we had some interesting files/thoughts on these two, let me see if I can find it.
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Post by joemcplumber on Apr 15, 2022 22:55:07 GMT
dmac logic™: "Yeah we know these documents are a sloppy mess of discrepancies but this particular one is legit because Blaine is a proven liar and murderer because of discrepancies with this document".
Sorry but it's not my job to parse every broken fragment of David's fantastical ravings. Can't be refuted anyhow since it's all in his head.
Blaine never saw Wade that morning. It's impossible to have happened because, it didn't happen. Period.
"Dmac says" holds no authority here.
Also, fk'off.
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Post by joemcplumber on Apr 15, 2022 23:07:50 GMT
IIRC, Blain spent the night next door to the Meeks. If he didn't call maybe he just walked over? According to those three ^documents Blaine spent the night with Mary B, who lived upstairs in the apartment building to the east of the Meeks home, across the hall from Jan S.
Dmac has decided that Mary B lived in that shack thing adjacent to the rear of the Meeks home, by his (mis-)interpretation of the word "house". So that's a premise from which he proceeds. It's the context in which he thinks. But it ain't so. Will never be so no matter how much he wishes it so.
His reasoning about the next day comes from conflicts between what Blaine said and what Doug Thomas wrote, along with some twisty supplementary "reasoning" from other stray lines of thought. None of it matters because what happened was what Blaine said happened. He knows because he was there at the time. Dave wasn't, i don't think.
As the accuser it's Dave's job to prove guilt. For instance, by some scrap of paper putting Blaine in Wade's company. Not by a series of self-serving assumptions based on discrepancies between accounts.
He's just pissed that Blaine contradicted his spirit animal Metcalf.
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Post by Hope on Apr 15, 2022 23:22:15 GMT
I'm interested in the two guys mentioned in that report as well. That's the only interesting thing I see in these statements. Especially considering one later had two black eyes and is likely the same Steve who changed his story/whereabouts Saturday night half a dozen times.
But the main problem is, those statements Dmac makes about Sunday are incorrect. 100% incorrect. Based off 25 year old fuzzy memories since proven to have been impossible. And some aerial photos claimed to have been taken Sunday at noon, which is also not true.
Those photos were stamped April 14, 1981. There is nothing to support his claim those photos were taken the 12th. It's an improbable claim for many reasons which I will post later.
Bottom line Wade wasn't in Keddie on Sunday. Which means Blaine couldn't have rode there with him. Stories have been consistent and match the files. But one person has made up this scenerio of what happened - including things he couldn't possibly know - and has decided everything else is falsified. It's bizarre, honestly.
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Post by snoho17 on Apr 16, 2022 5:43:18 GMT
I wasn't there and Dmac certainly wasn't there. I'm just saying it seems like Blain was close to the Meeks house, he could have called, hollered across an alley, or skipped backwards over to their house, it doesn't really matter. He probably learned of the murders pretty soon after the Meeks, word would have spread like wildfire. "As the accuser it's Dave's job to prove guilt", and he's done a piss poor job. It's the evidence that matters and I've seen none so far in this respect. I was a witness in a murder, hell I found the guy in my alley while 3 different agencies converged and searched. I let a sheriff know where he was, and then nothing. A detective left a card with an associate of mine the next day, and I called and left a message. I never heard back, I was never interviewed by LE. I was harassed by a reporter though, what little I said was attributed to another witness, and her account to me. The point is, in this (and it doesn't compare to keddie) open and shut case mistakes were made all around, because it's all just soooo chaotic. The LE were dealing with a dying woman and then a standoff, amidst the chaos of it all, things slipped through the cracks. The reporters were hard pressed to get the story out first, and misquoted several people.
It was a spring break weekend in Plumas and there was just so much activity everywhere. On the old boards, there were alot of mentions of the Oakland camp party, and that's the only one I ever specifically saw referred too by locals. Maybe it's on the Zodiac forum, but a deep dive was done into Steve D's wonderings that night. Back and forth with Johnny and Dana, Steve's stepbrother. Partying at Oakland Camp, leaving, returning for his forgotten beer, then to Jans. If we're going to pick things apart, how did Steve D have a full six pack at Jan's if he had to return to Oakland camp to "retrieve the rest of his beer"? Maybe he fled a beating but braved driving all the way back for a sixer? Yup, need to revisit
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Post by joemcplumber on Apr 16, 2022 22:06:59 GMT
he could have called, hollered across an alley, or skipped backwards over to their house, it doesn't really matter. It matters only inasmuch as it is the crux of McNarie's charge. Blaine said that he stopped at Keddie en route to Taylorsville and called Nina on the phone when he saw the ruckus at Sue's house. DT wrote that Blaine said Nina told him of the murders and then he hitched to Keddie. Therefore Blaine lied therefore Blaine is a murderer yadayada… Dave's got somewhat of a point in that nothing much else said or recorded on the matter makes sense if Blaine already knew of the murders before leaving Quincy. But that's kinda my point too, is none of it makes any sense. What sense is there to speculating from nonsensical premises? Plus i can't stress enough, none of it actually happened the way recorded. DT misunderstood, neglected to ask, and/or didn't care enough to be precise. It happened as Blaine said it happened, in his first postings to K28. I can't prove that since i lost my videotape of Blaine's activities for the day. All i can say is, that's how it was and it will never be proved different because it wasn't. Dave's called DT everything from a corrupt crook to an incompetent conspirator. He's deemed DT's reports to be illegible trash and lies. Yet he chooses to give this small snippet of report credibility because it supports his agenda, which is to retaliate at someone he feels is a traitor to his agenda. So yeah. It matters, and it doesn't. I'm just clarifying, so as Dave's story isn't the only one available. I mean this guy comes in here saying "dmac said" like he's relaying the word of God. But he's only regurgitating the vomit of a vindictive lunatic. .
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Post by joemcplumber on Apr 16, 2022 22:30:30 GMT
But i'm sorry i was a asshole abt it. Spend ten seconds imagining what it's like being a target of dmac's whinging and you'll understand why my temper is short. Not an excuse, an explanation. If you're really interested in this case then stick around, don't let me run you off. Everone else here is pleasant and civil, and i usually try to be. But i've got no more to say about Blaine. .
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Post by Hope on Apr 17, 2022 4:06:03 GMT
Dave's called DT everything from a corrupt crook to an incompetent conspirator. He's deemed DT's reports to be illegible trash and lies. Yet he chooses to give this small snippet of report credibility because it supports his agenda This is a common occurrence and a big problem with anything Dmac says. Everything has to be twisted, any way necessary to fit his theory. He claims reports are falsified until he comes across something he can use. People are liars except when he can use their words as evidence against others or towards his theory. A report will confirm statements one of his chosen "liar murderers" made and prove this person was telling the truth, yet according to Dmac that means the report is an "obviously falsified report". Just because it doesn't match what he says. The problem is, what he says happened is nothing but his speculation and opinion. I will always stand by my statement that DT & the other PCSO officers were doing all the could to try & solve these murders. But that doesn't mean they were perfect, especially when it came to their report writing. That's not because they were corrupt, just how they did things, poor report writing isn't unique to their Keddie investigation. Reading some of these reports you can tell they likely wrote them based off memory some time later. When you look at DT's Files, according to him he is interviewing Blaine at the same exact time he and Stoy are interviewing someone else at a different location. I never paid much attention to whatever the claim against Blaine is because it's ridiculous to me, one person to add to the ever growing list. But reading that^, the claim is even more ridiculous. I mean think about it, if someone had prior knowledge or whatever type of involvement why would they talk to their co-conspirator and then head on over to the scene to bring attention from LE upon themselves? Makes no sense. Same with Richard. And again, Wade wasn't in Keddie Sunday morning/afternoon.
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Post by snoho17 on Apr 17, 2022 10:41:46 GMT
I totally get why someone would get pissed after years of accusations. I'm feeling the same as hope on this one," I never paid much attention to whatever the claim against Blaine is because it's ridiculous to me." I am glad LE looked at him, that's their job. Clearing a person is invasive, and rude as hell. And I feel sorry for anyone who goes through it. But what's most crude, are the egregious accusations made against individuals with absolutely no evidence
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mike
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Post by mike on Apr 17, 2022 23:28:58 GMT
I didn't mean to make such a big deal out of it.
I'm simply interested since I used to know Blaine. He could be a real asshole, especially when he was drunk. He was drunk almost all the time. Him and Phillip Sheerer(?) tore things up regular. With the kind of fights they got in, it's just lucky nobody got killed. I don't know if Blaine ever killed someone but he seemed like the kind. He did settle down though, after he go married and he had kids and a job. He could be a real decent guy too, so I'm kind of torn about the whole thing. I don't believe he would had anything to do with the murder of a child, but dmac claims he did after the fact. I don't want to believe that, but I guess dmac has evidence? I don't understand it all, but he's supposed to be the expert.
Also Blaine used to get real pissed off when people talked about the murders. He literally told people to shut the f* up, because they don't know what they were talking about. Does that mean that he did know?
What qualifies joemcplumber as a Blaine expert, knowing exactly what he did and didn't do? I think I knew him better than anyone in a forum. You people only have cop reports, that came from dmac's website.
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Post by kmik on Apr 18, 2022 1:42:02 GMT
Mike said:
Well Mike, I think more important is what qualifies Dmac as an expert - on anything? If dmac had ANY "evidence" that Blaine was responsible for, or aided in, these murders then he would post it - but he hasn't because he doesn't. It's all just a bunch of dmacbabble entertained only by a very few who know nothing about the case.
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Post by joemcplumber on Apr 18, 2022 1:43:15 GMT
LMAO!
, and i mean that in the most civil and pleasant possible way.
Dude, and i mean this in the most polite possible way as well, you need to catch up on your reading.
If you have access to Dave's forums then read what he has to say and make up your own mind. Then if you like you can read here and make up your own mind. These forums are an offshoot of zodiackillerhoax1986.freeforums.net/ so you can read there and make up your own mind as well. I know, it's a crazy amount of reading and i don't like it either but ya gotta do some at least.
This thread only exists because dmac said straight up, "Blaine Gruebert has no alibi", and supported this contention with ^those files showing Blaine's alibi. I still have no idea how he came to that conclusion from these files but then, i am not a credulous dupe.
Are you?
End of story, i've said everything i can say about Blaine. At the end of the day he's as irrelevant as dmac thought he was all along. Again, dmac is ONLY trying to make Blaine relevant because he's pissed off at Blaine. You trust someone as an expert, who accuses someone of murder simply because he's pissed? If he had evidence he would be screaming it all over the internet and you wouldn't be confused. You "guess" he has some?
. .
Does your surname happen to rhyme, sorta, with "titter"?
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Post by Hope on Apr 18, 2022 17:44:45 GMT
You people only have cop reports, that came from dmac's website. We may not have personally known the victims and others mentioned in regards to this case, but we are also more than people with cop reports from Dmac's site. Those of you with a personal connection to this case have insight which is invaluable and definitely appreciated. The rest of us here have all seriously looked into this case for a very long time. Just as long as Dmac, who also only has cop reports. The difference is, he took what he read in those reports, mixed it in with pre existing opinions & speculation, turned it into a theory, and claims to have solved the murders. He claims things as fact he couldn't possibly know. He ran away the large community of people interested in the case, people with good intentions. He locked down his forum so that the public was only able to see what he wanted them to see, what he claims happened. Because of that and the fact his forum was the only information source for so long, his theory has taken over and been repeated innumerous times. Made worse by the fact it's been given undeserved credibility due to his association with certain former PCSO members. And because of the media specials and newspaper articles they appeared in together. But, we have all been around long enough to see how all of this transpired. To watch as old forum speculation and rumors turned into Dmac's theory, how things were twisted to fit the theory, turned into "facts" of the case and then repeated by LE and media as if legitimate. The truth is, the most current investigation uncovered nothing to actually prove these claims. There is zero evidence to back up any of it. What people believe to be evidence is filled with holes, every claim is actually conflicted by the evidence. All the while, more and more people are being drug into this mess and accused of horrendous things simply because of their associations and dmac-says-sos. Of the 15+ people accused of being involved in this convoluted murder conspiracy there is not one shred of evidence connecting any of them to these crimes. And there is evidence to be used. These are the things we want to bring attention to. This deserves more attention, but the entire Sunday thing has been created by Dmac. The murders occurred sometime between 11pm and 2am Saturday night. Blaine's whereabouts, as well as others named, are accounted for and verified. They were not in cabin 28 that night. Dmac's main two suspects had no transportation, were unable to take Tina to Camp Eighteen. Because of this, he needed to add other people to his claim, someone with a vehicle. This also requires poor Tina to have been left in a gulley on the side of the road until the transportation could be obtained. In comes an old story NIna Meeks told on the old forums. She claimed Marty, Bo and Dee came to her house early afternoon Sunday 4-14-81. Marty claimed he was going to Reno but she thought maybe he was really going to Feather Falls. Although she named three people she never saw Bo or Dee and the car she described they were in was a different vehicle than the one Dee owned. She claimed it was a white or silver sedan. But none of it matters because, if Marty ever stopped by Nina's house it wasn't on Sunday. MMB were all still in Keddie at that time. Marilyn didn't head to the Meeks until that night, verified by reports. Nina didn't pick Marilyn and the kids up that morning as she so often said. Memories get mixed up over the years, but they've been treated as facts and proof of lies here. So, because of Nina's story the aerial photos were used to show cars leaving Keddie, heading over to her house as she claimed. There is nothing proving those photos were taken at noon on Sunday. The back of the photos are stamped 4-14-81. Dmac claims that's the day they were processed. And it probably is, but they were also highly likely to have been take on 4-14-81. That is one of the days ground and aerial searches were being conducted for Tina. The search & photos are documented in news articles. Because of the importance, the photos were developed the same day they were taken. Why would they wait two days to develop photos related to a homicide and missing child? Not only that, but the lack of activity shows there is no way those photos were taken at noon on Sunday. There is one solitary police car seen in the photos - that is whoever was stationed there to secure the scene. Which is also stated in reports, once the investigation wrapped up (which was later than noon on Sunday), a guard was stationed outside to watch the residence/scene x 8 days. From reports, check Shaver's reports for one, there is a lot of activity going on at noon on Sunday. Every officer was still in Keddie, interviewing witnesses and processing the scene. Seabolt Sr returned home at noon and was interviewed. Daryel Josephson also returned about noon and was questioned. Two officers were canvassing the neighborhood and shortly after 12pm Stoy advised them of the pellet found at the scene, so they returned to interview Dareyl again. PCSO officers were still in Keddie, plus the fingerprint expert and Criminologist from the DOJ. Former forum posters who lived in Keddie at the time of the murders stated every cop in the county was there. That the activity was unreal. It is highly improbable all the activity had completely vanished by noon. News reporters were very likely on scene at this time. Plus residents watching the investigation. The locals I mentioned also stated there were no helicopters on Sunday, that they were present during the search for Tina. Crim and Bradley did not chopper in at noon on Sunday and take photos, for an unknown reason, upon their arrival. And then wait two days to develop these photos. Crim and Bradley were not even in Keddie on Sunday! There is not one single report or mention of them at all on Sunday. Their first Interviews, including Interviews with the family, occurred on Monday 4-13-81. And finally, since Dmac received more of those aerial photos, it turns out that green station wagon he claimed to have been Dee's was in fact parked in front of cabin 25, around the corner from and not parked in front of cabin 26. It pulled away prior to the car believed to have been Wade's. They did not leave in concurrence with one another. We already know Wade drove Bo to the bus station on 4-14-81 - the same day those photos are stamped. That explains why it may be Wade's car captured in those photos. To sum it up, Sunday has been blown out of proportion and used to fit Dmac's theory. The photos were not taken when he claims. Wade was not in Keddie Sunday morning/afternoon and Blaine already explained why he was in Keddie. Sunday doesn't matter because whomever committed the murders were long gone by then, probably returning from Camp Eighteen at the time. One more thing I'd like to point out, the chances that 15+ people were directly involved in the planning, execution and post offense disposal of evidence is statistically impossible. Crimes involving more than one person have a much higher solve rate, and more than one typically involves two or three people. The more people involved, the higher the likelihood someone is going to come forward. With 15+ people those odds are astronomical. Edit to add: Everything stated above can and will be backed up by evidence, case files, the photos and old posts.
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