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Post by Hope on Oct 9, 2021 20:56:17 GMT
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Post by Hope on Oct 9, 2021 20:57:21 GMT
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Post by Hope on Oct 9, 2021 20:58:18 GMT
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Post by snoho17 on Apr 15, 2023 22:11:02 GMT
I wish we knew more about the knotted pink belt, like what was the circumference of the loop? Waist size? Bound wrists? Neck? Also the "communication tape" could definitely have nothing to do with Tina's remains, they're all over the woods. But I would like to point out, a tree planter would probably carry some in their vehicle. Something I just noticed, under "communication tape" is written "BCSO" (Butte County Sheriffs Office) and something I can't make out. I'd thought this meant it was collected by BCSO, but no other individual items are singled out.
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Post by kmik on Apr 17, 2023 17:23:13 GMT
I’d like to know more about the pink belt too. I would have thought the communication tape was referring to the 911 call - didn’t realize this was some kind of actual tape. Looks like it says BCSO (something) room.
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Post by snoho17 on Apr 17, 2023 23:31:03 GMT
"Communication tape", I had to look it up, is like "crime scene" ribbon. Foresters use different colors to mark trees for different purposes, also used as boundary markers ect. Also marks off different hazards, road construction areas ect
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akat
Junior Member
Posts: 50
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Post by akat on May 22, 2023 12:35:29 GMT
I found this interesting, it’s from a report that Hancock transcribed? It’s the one I’ve been asking about in the Anonymous call and Tina’s body file.
“6-19-84, the evidence seized by BCSO during the search was labeled and packaged by myself and readied for transport to the DOJ lab in Redding. Purpose to compare the knots found in the ligatures from the victims inside the Keddie residence with the knot found in the cloth ligature found in Butte County. Tahama Co. investigators who were in Quincy on a different case will transport the evidence to the Redding lab on 6-21-84 on their return to their county.”
So whoever this investigator is, considered the knot in the cloth a ligature. He was sending it to be examined to see if it matched the ligatures found in Keddie. It seems to me they didn’t think it was being used like a belt and the circumference was small enough in the loop they considered it a ligature. But that’s just my opinion. Wonder where that report comparing them is….
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Post by snoho17 on May 22, 2023 21:55:52 GMT
Nice catch akat, that's definitely a piece of evidence that needs going over with a fine tooth comb. Sure hope it's still around!
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akat
Junior Member
Posts: 50
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Post by akat on May 23, 2023 2:19:25 GMT
Thanks Sno. I agree. I hope they did have a report on whether this does match or not. I seriously doubt there’s any dna on it. It was in the weather/woods for quite some time. But if I remember correctly different knots were used on either Sue, Dana, or Johnny. I would like to know if there is a match which victims ligatures it was matched to.
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Post by Hope on May 23, 2023 2:22:14 GMT
Yes : ( You reminded me, I believe there is report on the comparison results. Let me see if I can find it.
Also, listed in this report is the cassette of the anonymous 911 call - the one they tried to claim was never checked into evidence & made to disappear. It's listed right here and mentioned in a couple other reports! Unbelievable
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Post by Hope on May 23, 2023 2:47:43 GMT
Wow akat! And you too snoho because you said the red ribbon was probably forestry tape.
I'm working on getting this up, but it looks like they determined that knotted cloth was similar to the red ribbon, which was a US Forestry department sample they collected from the scene to compare with the knotted piece found with Tina. It's always been speculated the "cloth with knot" was a belt from the pink pant suit. Turns out it was forestry ribbon that was already at camp eighteen?
Bear with me, I'll get it up asap. Need to combine a few different transcriptions.
Edit to add: Error on my part ^. It was the red material determined to be consistent with the USFS boundary ribbon.
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Post by Hope on May 23, 2023 4:11:42 GMT
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Post by snoho17 on May 23, 2023 5:31:53 GMT
Lots of good stuff here, thanks Hope! One thing that particularly jumped out at me is this "05-11-81 FBI Report The knot used to tie the gag on Glenna Sue Sharp was tied in a "granny" knot. All other knots used to bind the victims were double half hitches with the second loop tied backward."
First off because we've discussed and wondered what made any certain knot in this case "unique" and tied that into Dee Lakes statement about vets. None of us thought these knots would have been unique to military personnel, and in fact that type of knot is used for allll sorts of things. And secondly, I'd never noticed the second loop tied backwards! So yeah that would make those knots unique, and now I gotta wonder, would a left handed person tie knots differently? Something PCSO seemed to hone in on about Marde was his left handedness. I thought (and still kinda do) it was in relation to that one stab mark from the wall being pulled out a different angle than the others, but maybe it was these knots all along? Not sure this is what was going on but two half hitches reversed side by side will effectively form a fast lockdown under tension.
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Post by snoho17 on May 23, 2023 5:56:19 GMT
" I seriously doubt there’s any dna on it." Your probably right, but I got to thinking how hairy arms can be, especially on men and how while tying a knot a hair or two could definitely get caught in the fabric. Which brings me to an interesting article I read the other day. To spare you all, I'll keep it short, but biology researchers found they could pull human DNA from sand at the beach, and even more impressive, they could literally pull human DNA out of thin air. The article then goes into all the ethical dilemmas this could produce. But there seemed to be a definite interest in using this to track missing persons. Last year I posted an article where ancient human DNA was pulled from the soil in a cave in Europe. 30 years ago, I believe DNA could only be traced on the maternal end, and had to be extracted from pristine soft tissue. Sorry to geek out:) Years ago I avoided biology because I thought it would be boring and I wasn't smart enough to understand it. Then I had to take a class and discovered I was only half right:) Anyway, we've come a long way baby!
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Post by Hope on May 23, 2023 18:05:42 GMT
"05-11-81 FBI Report The knot used to tie the gag on Glenna Sue Sharp was tied in a "granny" knot. All other knots used to bind the victims were double half hitches with the second loop tied backward." And secondly, I'd never noticed the second loop tied backwards! So yeah that would make those knots unique, and now I gotta wonder, would a left handed person tie knots differently? Same & while copying the autopsy report sections I realized the ME didn't specify the type of knot used on Johnny & Dana. So, it was "double half hitches with the second loop tied backward" used on each boys ankle. The same person likely tied j&d together. It makes sense to me a left handed person would tie it differently. It'd be interesting to find out. I forget, did that report about that knife marks state the the knife was likely pulled out in direction suggesting a left handed person? Or was that something we speculated? They made sure to ask Marilyn if Marty was right or left handed for a reason. And he was lefty. I also remember reading something last time we looked into knots - when the second loop is reversed it changes the name of the knot. Similar but different knots depending on the use/purpose. I *think* reversing that second loop makes the knot stronger and less likely to slip. Definitely don't quote me on that, something we need to confirm. But perhaps that was the reason for the reverse loop? It was someone comfortable & familiar with using these knots though. Something quick & easy for them, imo most regular people would be tying off granny knots in that situation.
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